Worst case scenario

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by HonoluluYogi, Apr 9, 2017.

  1. JR1980

    JR1980 Starter

    Foster is the best ILB in this draft...baggage or not. Yes...better than Reddick and Cunningham. He can run fast enough laterally, he hits hard, and he hits the seems. Coverage is good enough. I'm good with either him or Reddick, but he's got attitude and tape to back his play. That said, my gut says he won't be a Titan.
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  2. Jwill1919

    Jwill1919 Coach


    Heat seeking missile
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  3. abc2330

    abc2330 Starter

    People complained about missing out on Ramsey and thought he was a top 2 talent, despite all of the questions regarding his ability to hold his own against quick receivers in man coverage. Lattimore is just as athletic, and has 0 concerns regarding his coverage ability, and he is good in run support and had 0 missed tackles last year. I don't see how Ramsey is a top talent, and he isn't.
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  4. The Hammer

    The Hammer Leper Messiah

    • LOL LOL x 1
  5. LangeSohne

    LangeSohne Starter

    But when you couple it with getting ejected from the combine (something no other player managed to do), that statement is a reflection on Foster.
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  6. JR1980

    JR1980 Starter

    Ramsey looked terrible through mid season last year and picked it up towards the end. He is no guarantee, that's for sure.
  7. JR1980

    JR1980 Starter

    I like how he knows when to lay the wood, but will wrap people up smartly when called for...I do like his attitude/play...Hopefully the side stuff doesn't hurt him no matter where he ends up....
  8. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor


    Here are the details. Sounds like there was definitely mitigating circumstances, and NFL looking toward improving the extended Medical waits that escalated the situation. And yes- Foster is an aggressive guy. And yes- it sounds like the unnamed Med staff person was also and it escalated.

    So again, I'm certainly not put off or worried about it. Foster stayed out of trouble in other ways. How much "management" was required to keep him out of trouble and productive. I don't know but Sabah was able to do it. I imagine every NFL team has similar support structures of varying degrees. I can tell you this- Foster is NFL ready and definitely top 10 pick worthy.
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  9. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

    A fair question. Let's examine your first assumption first that Lattimore is 'just as athletic.' I'll go with combine measurables to compare apples to apples.

    Lattimore is 6' compared to Ramsey's 6'1".
    Lattimore is 193lbs compared to Ramsey's 209lbs.
    Lattimore has 31 1/4" arms length to Ramsey's 33 3/8" arm length.
    Lattimore has 8 7/8" hands compared to Ramsey's 9 1/2" hands.
    Lattimore ran a 4.36 40 compared to Ramsey's 4.41 40.
    Lattimore vertical jumped 38.5" compared to Ramsey's 41".
    Lattimore Broad jumped 132" compared to Ramsey's 135".

    The takeaway is that in a foot race, Latt is slightly faster. BUT, Ramsey is taller, longer, has bigger hands, and is more athletic. When you consider Ramsey outweighs Lattimore by 16lbs and the only thing Latt has on him is .05 seconds in the 40...Ramsey is the better and more explosive athlete.

    Stats wise Lattimore has good stats(41 tkls, 1 TFL, 9 pbu's, 4 INTS)...but he only has 1 year of stats which adds to his risk factor. Combine that with the REASON for that (injured hammy's) and you have another risk factor. Ramsey also had good stats his last year as a cb (52 tkls, 3.5 TFL, 3 sacks, 10 pbu's), but it's his previous year which gives you confidence where he was truly dominant (80 tkls, 9.5 TFL, 3 sacks, 12 PBU's, 2 QB hurries, 3 FF, 1 kick blocked, and 2 INT's) playing a hyrbrid S role. If you drafted him as purely a CB, yes you had some risk, but he proved at worst he's an awesome S = virtually no floor which is what you want in a top 5 pick.

    Lastly, watch game tape. In 2014, Ramsey was everywhere. he played against bigger players (TE's) and wr's and made plays...a LOT of plays. In 2015, he wasn't as effective just trying to mostly cover 1 guy as a cb, but he was quite good at it and with his elite athletic traits and playmaking ability, you might have some growing pains at cb but he should pick up NFL coaching quickly and have a chance to be the next Patrick Peterson.

    The only knocks I have on Lattimore from a playing perspective is that he sometimes guesses (gave up a TD to Darboh on a slant when he started with inside shade coverage), doesn't always get his head around (see Penn State game) which will get you beaten in the NFL, and he really has a problem disengaging from bigger wr's/te's in run support. Lastly, OSU gets a lot of pressure and he plays a lot of bail technique where frequently the wr is open if it's anything besides a go route (Penn State, Michigan).

    I combine all of these factors - Ramsey had no real floor as a player (he did as a pure CB), had elite size and athleticism, and great playmaking ability as a S/hybrid defender and the potential to be Patrick Peterson as a CB.

    Lattimore is a good sized CB with burner speed but 'only' very good athleticism. His lack of experience, injury concerns, % of playing bail technique, and not getting his head around issues make me less 'certain' about him. Hence, he's not a traditional top 5 pick for me.

    Just because I thought Ramsey was better/safer, doesn't mean Lattimore isn't the best CB in this draft. He is and I've been saying it for a while now. But he's got a few things to clean up.

    The counter argument is that with NFL coaching, can't he be just as good? And the answer is yes! But the less certain I am of what I'm getting (vs the potential upside), the farther I knock people down the board. Getting knocked out of my top 5 to top 10 or top 15 isn't exactly 'bad.' He's still a first round lock and should be the first cb off the board!
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  10. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

    This is judgement. He allowed an annoying situation to potentially cost him MILLIONS of dollars! You don't get thrown out of the biggest job interview of your life because of some JAG doesn't treat you well. Add in that he went high a few times in the Championship game which potentially could get him kicked out of a huge game. Add in his concussion issues...

    He is a great player, but I don't see the titans taking him at 5 if he needs a support system around him to keep him out of trouble and he has poor judgement? at 18? Depends on what they think of his injury concerns, judgement issues, and how good he is vs other players like Davis, Cunningham, McMillian, Reddick, Anzalone or Riley. Guys who have a me me me issue aren't exactly what a GM would think of as a team first kind of guy. But even Parcells bent his own rules for a transcendant player like LT!!!