Barry Bonds

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by RyansTitans, Apr 10, 2007.

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  1. Hoffa

    Hoffa Freak you you freakin' freak

    I concur about your conspiracy theory, Riverman.
    I have never watched a MLB game since their stike cancelled the World Series, and I never will again.
  2. Carpy

    Carpy Disgruntled foreign veteran

    Baseball has no-one to blame for all this publicity but themselves. They played Russian Roulette by turning a blind eye to performance enhancing drugs and Barry Bonds just fired the killer blow.

    Football is headed for the same disaster. To suspend players for 4 games for taking Steroids is obscene. You are virtually inviting players to cheat, because the punishment sure as hell doesn't fit the crime.
  3. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

    You had me hook, line and sinker up to here.

    At age 37, power production drops. We have the entire history of the game to verify this.

    Just look at his HR production up to '99.

    From '90 to '99, we have nearly a decade where Bonds hit between 25 and 46 HR. But he averaged 40 HRs during that span.

    Note his HR totals began to slip, as most players do, from age 31 on:
    '96 - 42
    '97 - 40
    '98 - 37
    '99 - 34

    Excellent numbers, right? A 35-year old slugger still putting 34 HRs in the seats ain't bad.

    The next year, you jump to 49 HRs followed by the 73 HR season. Follow this by three consecutive 45 HR seasons.

    So, if you want to look at what his production likely would have been without the juice, you go back and look at the four-year trend and adjust according to the pattern:

    '00 - 32
    '01 - 30
    '02 - 28
    '03 - 28
    '04 - 28
    '05 - 28
    '06 - 26
    '07 - 26

    Obviously, Bonds would have retired well before now if he couldn't have kept his HR production up. I guess around '03. Note I gave him 28 HRs in '05 when he actually had only five.

    Since the time he was suspected to have started sterioids ('99-'00), he's put up 445 HRs. If you add up the adjusted numbers above, you get 226 HRs.

    If Bonds was steroid-free, he is likely sitting around 200+ HRs short. He'd be lucky to break 600 HRs in his career. Very respectable but nothing close to what Aaron accomplished.
  4. Deuce Wayne

    Deuce Wayne Crap the booze out.

    Why does this matter at all?

    1. All athletes do some sort of supplement. An enhancer that isn't natural. All of them. So what makes Bond's different from everyone else? His supplement was on a list of the banned?
    2. Had Bonds played in the days of Hank (and I know, everyone is going to hate this) he would have hit far more than Aaron. The pitching was completely different. Pitchers stayed in longer, didn't walk near as much, and the technical side of pitching was nonexistent.
    3. A-Rod is going to break this record easily anyway. So who cares if Bonds has it for a few years? If people are upset about Bonds breaking Aaron's record, they should be thrilled knowing they'll see A-Rod crush Bond's record. Right?
    4. Baseball sucks, and the only reason it hasn't died completely is because of 3 guys. McGuire. Sosa. Bonds. ALL of them did steroids, and saved baseball from falling off the face of the earth.
    Imagine baseball with no bonds. No homerun race between McGuire and Sosa, etc. What would be the point? Why would sports-center even waste time showing highlights?

    Just don't understand all the hypocrisy behind this entire ordeal. Mainly because all athletes do some sort of steroid. Cyclists, Baseball players, Basketball players (see: Shaq, Zo, etc for irrefutable evidence), Football players, Track stars, etc, yet nobody cares when these players do it. People praise Lebron James and we know surely he's on roids just by the way he grew from a 17 year old's body to a 30 year olds within 2 seasons. But, since he's the media's play toy, it's perfectly fine.
    Barry had a rep for being an a-hole. Without that rep, nobody would care about steroid abuse.
  5. BigRed3

    BigRed3 Straight Cash, Homey

    What the hell are you talking about?


    Lebron now


    Lebron in high school

    So unless you have some sort of inside information, I really don't think that we "surely know" that he's on steroids.
  6. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

    A couple of things (although I really don't feel like debating this much):

    1. Bonds had a similar HR downward trends in his twenties and thirties- It is not valid to simply state it was because he hit age "37". These were also followed by upward trends in years later.
    2. The league did not have a steroid policy in place until 2002. They began "survey" testing at that point. In '05 the new mandatory random testing policy came in effect I believe.
    3. Was Bonds on the juice in 02-05? I don't know- but his numbers were similar to what he had in his late 20's and early 30's. Did steroids make up the age related power loss and that is why we see similar numbers? I don't think so. Why the heck would we have a 50% increase in his record 73 HR year? I think this was likely the only year or around it- time he was on the juice.
    4. Hank Aaron hit 40 HR's when he was 39, then he dropped off as he went to a DH role. So either Hank was on the juice, or it is possible that a 39 year old can put up those numbers.

    I pretty well summed up my main points in my other posts.
  7. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

    If you rank steriods the same as a multi-vitamin and creatine, then there isn't much use of talking about it anymore because anything goes.

    Really? Ever hear of Bob Gibson? The mound was higher. The parks were bigger. They played more day games with the heat and sunlight. They let pitchers go inside on batters who crowded the plate. Batters didn't wear armor. Need I go on?

    Aaron deserves to keep the record he earned.

    No argument from me there.

    You were defending Bond because there was "no proof" yet you point the finger at athletes from nearly ever major sport as users?

    You are right though. Some turn a blind eye from other athletes who maybe used it. But that doesn't make it right that Bonds did it, does it?
  8. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

    Just to clarify TJ- I've never stated that Bond's use of steroids was acceptable. I've only supported that it was understandable and that he should not be discredited for his lifetime of work. I've also supported Bonds because I believe he receives a tremendous amount of hate with irrational justifications.
  9. Blazing Arrow

    Blazing Arrow The 12th man


    Your stats fail to look at the 34 HRs vs the number of at bats he took. His HR total in '99 was only 34 but it was in far few at bats. His output per at bat was crazy that season.

    Another thing to consider is the park he plays in. AT&T park is a fairly new park which caters to Bond's swing with a short porch in right. His HR on the road vs HR at home should really be factored into it.

    Allot of newer parks these days are desinged to have power allies where the ball jumps out. Most parks are hitter frieldy not pitcher.

    You also say his total is suppose to be 26 this season, a number that he is 4 off of with 51 games to play. He will most likely pass that number this season at the age of 42. He is on a pace to hit over 30 out this season well into his 40s. I do not think anyone could argue that he is juiced at the moment and he is still holding his mass.

    Make you kind of wonder how deap the steriod thing actually is if at all.
  10. Carpy

    Carpy Disgruntled foreign veteran

    That, right there, is absolutely stunning. 14 years earlier Ben Johnson was kicked out of Athletics for taking steroids, and yet Baseball didn't see its lack of action as likely to end up with the problem they have now??

    They played Russian Roulette and lost.

    I'm not defending Bonds, because anyone greedy and stupid enough to take steroids deserves no support in my view, but I think a piss weak Baseball Commissioner is at least deserving of equal blame for the controversy that this has created.
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