With the 30th pick in the '09 NFL Draft...

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Ubiq, Jan 10, 2009.

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  1. wplatham

    wplatham U of M Class of 2012

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    I think my problem with Harvin is if we can find a way to get him the ball so he can do these things. Sure, an end-around sounds good, but when you play in a league where the ends run 4.6s and the linebackers run 4.4s, you can't depend on the end-around but once every few games. I'm not sold on Harvin running between the tackles in the pros. We've already said that he really doesn't have much experience actually playing receiver. And with that said, I don't know about drafting a guy in the first round to catch screens and flares.

    Also, I really don't see us drafting an offensive lineman in the first. Not only is our line really good right now, but we have been insanely good at drafting lineman in the later rounds. I expect us to pick one in the fourth again.
  2. Young54

    Young54 The KID

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    I know you are referring to draft day trades, but I just really felt the need to mention another stupid trade…Roy Williams! HA!

    We could of probably pushed a 2nd or maybe even a 1st from Dallas if we tried hard enough. We ended up just giving Pac away….still worth it though.
  3. Young54

    Young54 The KID

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  4. Ubiq

    Ubiq BAMF

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    So, Nicks is a great prospect because he torched a defense with absolutely no NFL talent on it? GREAT advanced scouting there Gut.

    Britt is a better prospect in every aspect of the game. He's bigger, stronger, more physical, and I'd be willing to bet they're speeds are comparable. Pretty good considering Britt is 3 inches taller. Nicks is decent, but I don't understand why everyone is so infatuated with him.

    Keep quoting his stats. Stats prove nothing, people. He's not a giant, a burner, or a great WR. He's a 2nd round guy, and will be nothing more than a solid #2 in the NFL. Gut's 1000+ word posts aren't going to change that either.
  5. Ubiq

    Ubiq BAMF

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    And that's supposed to help your argument?

    Again, wonderful advanced scouting from you Gut.
  6. Ubiq

    Ubiq BAMF

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    As a PURE WR, I like Britt a lot better.

    Maclin is no different from Harvin. Great athlete, great playmaker, but doesn't have a clue how to play WR. It will take a while to get either one of them coached up. I'll take my chances with Britt.
  7. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Um....

    No NFL talent? If I'm comparing how both players played against the defense, this is a moot point. However, the handful of guys who have a decent chance to be drafted off that defense will appreciate that you think they're undraftable.

    Interesting...so how tall exactly are both players? How strong are both players? And betting their speeds are comparable is a meaningless expression. Two cars driving at two different speeds have comparable speeds since you are...comparing them. What makes you think Britt has better hands and is a bigger deep threat?

    Interesting that stats prove nothing since your argument AGAINST Percy Harvin is that he doesn't have stats. You mention wanting Britt because of his attributes but discount Harvins attributes. Pick a side. you can't have your cake and eat it too...

    Gut
  8. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Simple...

    If you want to compare two players, one way to do it is to see how they do against the same defense. Nicks vastly outplayed Britt (along with everyone else) and yet you're sure Britt is the best 'pure' WR in the draft.

    Gut
  9. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Hmmmm...

    It'll take a while to get any of these WR's coached up. But if they have unique skills that can be employed right away (ala Percy Harvin at slot/RB or Maclin at slot or return game), they can be useful weapons from day 1. Just look at DeSean Jackson last year. Another guy you would have said needs to get coached up and yet he produced big time for them.

    So Harvin's no good because he has so few catches but Maclin's no good even though he averaged over 7 catches a game and had a TD in 9 out of the 14 games he played this year?

    What is your definition of a pure WR?

    Gut
  10. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    The point is...what Harvin can do without any coaching up will still give us big plays from day one. And he can be a significant playmaker for us while not having to play that much and while he learns how to run better routes and cleaning up an deficiencies in his game. His upside is a taller Steve Smith.

    Most of us didn't think Chris Johnson could run effectively between the tackles but he did. Why wouldn't Harvin be able to as well? I'm not suggesting we hand him the ball 25 times a game on blast plays up the middle, but a delay or draw vs nickel or dime defense...letting him run patterns out of the backfield where he is mismatched versus LB's and S's is an automatic advantage for us. Even if he doesn't catch the ball, the defense will have to change their coverage to account for him. Ask yourself...how effective is the Eagles Westbrook as a receiver playing RB? Extremely hard to contain! And if you're not sold on Harvin as a WR (even though he's played it for the last 2 years), you'd have to agree he can do a lot of damage as a RB and as a slot WR even if he was only doing very basic stuff (slants, outs, hitches, drag routes and screens - all of which he knows quite well from Florida). The fact that he can do a lot of damage with few touches and limited playing time allows us to use him from day one, negate a lot of the 'injury' concerns, and give us a playmaker WHILE he develops into an even better one!

    And if that player can turn screens and flares into big plays for us...with the upside being a bigger Steve Smith in 3 years...I'm all for it!

    As for our OL...not sure what you mean insanely good in the later rounds. Our best OL by far is Roos and he was taken pretty early. Mawae is a former Pro Bowler and Scott was not ours either. Amano is OK and Stewart is solid. Who was the last OL we got in rnds 5-7 that made the Pro Bowl?

    Living in New York I saw Mawae in his prime. He's not close to that anymore and he's only gonna get worse while making a nice chunk of change. Mack is the best OC prospect since Mangold. Why not have a Pro Bowl caliber OC for the next decade for a team that likes to pound the ball up the middle???

    Gut
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