Which TV

Discussion in 'Gear' started by Gunny, Apr 10, 2007.

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  1. Puck

    Puck Pro Bowler

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    well, to me it is clearly noticeable
    as a matter of fact, i find differences in 720p v 1080i v 1080p

    the Sony SXRD (1080p) crushes the Toshi (1080ip?) that I had

    I don't believe that the posters claiming there is no difference is using reference material or high quality displays

    as I'm typing this, I'm watching Happily Never After (SD) with my kid on my ps3/sxrd setup - the displayed info says it's 1080p (it's being upconverted)... it looks clearer than most material that you'd see on CBSHD (Comcast 233)
    for comparison, I hooked it up to the 37" Olevia 1080i LCD in the living room - not even close. you'd think that the smaller screen LCD could at least keep up with the 60" LcoS = nada

    I can see it
    but if you're gonna stick with that Toshi DLP, you might not
    I just don't think DLP is there yet
    #31
  2. Laserjock

    Laserjock South Endzone Rocks! Staff

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    I have seen both 1080i and 1080p source material on ISF calibrated displays, and I have not seen an appreciable difference between the two. Difference between 720p and 1080i, yes. Just watch Fox HD sports and then watch CBS HD sports and you will see the difference between 720p and 1080i.

    I am not saying that some people who look hard enough will see the difference, but I am not convinced that if I played back the same movie at 1080i and 1080p that anyone could tell the difference in a blinded test.

    I have a 73" DLP and have no issues with rainbows nor motion artifacts. I am pretty anal about pixelation and artifacts and I have yet to see any, and I have not even had it ISF calibrated yet. That happens in Sept.

    TJ's Tosh is a great set. Some people are more susceptible to rainbows with DLPs than others, so that is a user dependent issue. I know people that love their SXRD and others that swear by their DLP or Plasma. Its like cars, its all in the eyes of the user.

    Buy what you love and love what you buy and don't try to tell others that they have inferior equipment.
    #32
  3. Puck

    Puck Pro Bowler

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    forgive me if that's the way it sounds LJ (and TJ)
    I'm not sure of Jeff's model number, but I can tell you that the Toshiba **HM196 models do NOT accept 1080p input via any connection
    they are advertised as 1080p sets, but I'm not sure if they are ever able to achieve that resolution. I connected several different components via HDMI and VGA and was never able to achieve 1080p ... a little research uncovered that DLP displays like the (HM196) achieves a 'progressive' 1080 picture only by means of "wobulation" of the mirrors.

    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

    It's an emulation
    and my guess is that a DLP set manufactured by Samsung , Toshiba and Mitsubishi that claim 1080p resolution is achieving it by wobulation.

    if anyone owning such a display can post a pic of the resolution display info showing the set is indeed scanning 1080p then I will gladly retract my statement
    #33
  4. Puck

    Puck Pro Bowler

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    like so

    Attached Files:

    #34
  5. Laserjock

    Laserjock South Endzone Rocks! Staff

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    I think my point is that I personally at this point do not care about 1080p for a couple of reasons. One, there is no HD that is currently or will be anytime soon broadcast in 1080p via cable, air or satellite. Until the bandwidth is fully available and both the networks and movie houses commit to such we won't be seeing it widespread anytime soon. By the time its the standard both our sets will be "outdated" anyway and we will be discussing "Which TV" again.

    Second, I just do not see the difference in the 1080i and 1080p material that is out right now, again on fully ISF calibrated displays. If I am not getting the "wow" factor pop when I view the up to 1080p, then it is not worth my worrying about being on the cutting edge by having a set that accepts it.

    Enjoy your Sony...a lot of people love their SXRD sets.
    #35
  6. Puck

    Puck Pro Bowler

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    maybe we're posturing over different ideals here

    here's what I'm trying to say (not to be provocative or otherwise)
    there are not that many places where a person can go to view a 1080p presentation. Most people will go to BestBuy or CC and gather their opinions there :ha: . Even at HiFi or Tweeter, you're still not going to get proper "in-home" viewing results. I'm saying that my guess is that the people that are claiming to not see the difference have A) not actually seen a true 1080p presentation on a quality set (ie, a wobulating DLP would not apply) B) if they have seen a real setup, but didn't see a 1080p presentation side-by-side a 1080i presentation

    I would love to see these ISF calibrated displays you speak of. where ?

    now, to source material
    yes, it may be never before 1080p is broadcast standard
    it takes enormous bandwidth
    but the real need for 1080p (for those who want it) is to get the most out of their home entertainment experience through gaming and movie watching, not just broadcast TV (which is so compressed, any clarity gain would be lost in the compression / sampling)
    with Blu-Ray and now Hd-DVD outputing in 1080P and the Ps3 beginning to construct games in 1080p it is very much a relevant technology ... but only for people who combine gear that properly utilizes the resolution (as in my examination of connecting a Blu-Ray player to a DLP that is simply using wobulation)

    and no, ther is no MAJOR difference in i and p - how can there be ?
    your talking about over 1,000 lines of resolution
    but it is noticeable to see the scan difference
    just set an old CRT TV beside a PC Monitor ... you see it ?

    My question to all :
    Did you notice the difference when you bought your first progressive scan DVD player ? it's about the same type of contrast
    there's not alot, but there is :
    a gain in detail
    a loss of mosaic artifacting
    deeper blacks
    more vivid colors
    1080i is an interlaced signal
    1080p is a progressive scan signal

    I respect your opinion Laserjock
    and I can understand your stance on waiting it out
    but I can tell you from first hand experience that there is a noticeable difference between the 2 sets that i referred to - enough to warrant and justify the purchase
    #36
  7. Puck

    Puck Pro Bowler

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    most people shopping can see differences in picture clarity between an LCD and a Plasma ... or a DLP vs an LcoS

    now, if someone could see differences between several different sets using the SAME 1080i signal, don't you think they'd be able to see the difference in interlaced and progressive scans

    for those who've not given it much thought
    --To compare 1080i and 1080p, it is important to compare framerates. Due to interlacing, 1080i has twice the frame-rate but half the resolution of a 1080p signal using the same bandwidth. --
    #37
  8. VolnTitan

    VolnTitan Starter

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    I have seen all 3 resolutions and it depends at what you are looking at. How it is shot, etc. I don't think your average viewer at home will ever see the difference on any consumer set.

    As far as broadcast, it will most likely be 1080i. Won't see 1080p broadcasted.
    #38
  9. Puck

    Puck Pro Bowler

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    i found some info :
    It is less bandwidth-intensive to broadcast a film at 1080p24 than 1080i30, since 20% less data would be transferred.
    #39
  10. VolnTitan

    VolnTitan Starter

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    I seriously doubt you will see the standard ever be anything 1080p or 720p. Too expensive to change over.
    #40
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