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Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Gut, Aug 21, 2006.
maybe we don't have the talent on D we thing we do...
Just some coffee and toast this morning.
I think we can assume Bulluck has heard how to play with proper technique for the last decade or more. I think is it a discredit to Bulluck to think he needs to be coached like a first or second-year player. I think it's also a stretch to think he isn't coached on technique during the preseason.
Again, it is something discussed in OTAs, the film room and training camp. Once the season begins, you rarely have the time to go back and rehash basic technique during the regular season. It is up to the player to practice what he has been taught. Let's put some responsibility on the player here.
And it continues to happen almost on a yearly basis. I would assume most teams with the inexperience the Titans have had do it even more.
As you said, Williams did it. Schwartz has done it too. So why praise Williams and not Schwartz when they both have had the same issues and addressed it the same way.
"More and more sloppy?" Based on what? One play in a preseason game?
Look at his stats. A player that productive is doing something right. I don't stare at Bulluck for 20 snaps in a row to see if he is practicing perfect technique even if I knew what that is supposed to be.
My point is he is a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER who has both experience and success. What is a professional in your eyes? Someone who needs the same technical coaching as a rookie or second-year guy in mid-season? What burden do you place on one of the top LBs in the league to be responsible for his own actions?
It tells me the Titans defense, since '03, hasn't had nearly the talent it did in '03 or what Williams had. It's pretty simple when you look at the roster in '03 vs. '05.
It can be if you have the talent and experience to execute it to perfection. The Titans D clearly isn't nearly as talented as those Buc defenses. You can cover a lack of talent with scheme.
I've addressed this. Where was the talent in '04 and '05? Looks at the guys who were on the field playing vanilla defense in '04 because of injuries. Look at the rookies and second-year guys last year. I see three guys on those defenses which break into the lineup in a top 10 defense.
And I am unwilling to judge this season's defense based on one performance. As logical a guy as you are, how can you predict how the defense will play in October? It was the second preseason game. I think we'll have a better grasp on this season's defense in a couple of months.
I've pointed out often the mistakes Reese has made since '03. But some of it isn't his fault as injuries have taken their toll as well. Here are the higher defensive picks from '02-'04 which should be the heart and soul of the Titan defense:
You don't have any of the above even sniffing a Pro Bowl. Besides Haynesworth, you have a long list of busts, very average players or guys who have been injured most of their career.
To Reese's credit, he didn't have the opportunity to take a guy in the top 10 during that era. But still, that is very little production from guys who should be doing more.
And I see technique and talent going hand-in-hand. Talent is limited if there is a lack of technique and vise versa. You have cases (like Hayneworth) who is often times successful despite a lack of technique. You have some players (like Sirmon) who probably would not be in the league except for his technique. But proper technique can only take you so far without talent.
Surely you don't think technique is not being taught to these guys. One visit to camp will tell you otherwise. I clearly think technical issues are easily overshadowed by a lack of talent and inexperience.
very disheartining to see those picks laid out like that
very much so.
Alright- I thought I was out of this debate but TJ, you keep defending the same points. I think others and myself differ from you on a couple of points.
Yes, the player is responsible to utilize the proper technique he has been taught or reminded. BUT every player needs constant objective review and practice to maintain it. That is one of the RESPONSIBILITIES of the coaches, most importantly of which is the DC.
As an individual player it is that player's responsibility to give his all toward being a better player for the team. The "concern" is that a much higher number of players are playing with poor technique. Now it is a TEAM issue. Who is responsible to correct the TEAM issue? IMO, the coaches are- and Schwartz because he is the DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. If a player just refuses to incorporate the technique or is too stupid, is it the coaches job to get somebody who does.
I completely disagree with you here. Watch the films of Williams defenses. They weren't nearly as sloppy with their techniques. IMO, that's why he got better results.
We've had difficulty getting anybody to understand that it is NOT JUST ONE PRE-SEASON GAME that has us "worked up". It is the poor technique style of play that the TEAM has demonstrated over past 2 years. That fact that we see it in the first team play in the pre-season "concerns" me that the issue has not been corrected.
In summary, I know that we agree this issue dies if the Titans first team defenders can play a technique solid "pre-season" game. If not, we keep beating this issue to death.
Their first stringers vs our 2nd stringers?
Tell me which of these guys is a second stringer..
Which one? They all started! The 2 starters not playing(Just 2!) laboy and haynesworth play the right side but most of the rushing yardage was up the middle and our left.
Is cutler their starting QB? Is nash their starting RB?
All these excuses that just don't wash. Like the altitude. Why would the altitude matter in a pre season game in which we play 50-60 different guys?
Why would we compare the 2005 defense to the 2003 personel? This year is different isn't it?
Addition of thornton and hope. Hill, fuller and pacman are not rookies. Last year we didn't even have fuller. Pacman has an improved attitude. Laboy-odom-starks-schobel are 3rd year players now so age is not an excuse.
Yes it is but we're not so bad when you look at other teams drafts over the last 5 years. I looked at a few & most drafts only generate 2 or 3 at best good starters for a team.
Ours stands out because we've had to rely solely on the draft & have had to play back up talent as starters.
What a good point. Are we REALLY out of cap hell yet?
Which is what OTAs, training camp and the preseason if for. I've read Fisher comment about working on technique during the season and he's said that the focus is on gameplanning once the regular season begins. There is little time for basic technique work which is why they are in camp two months before the first game of the season.
As Gut mentions, there are exceptions such as after the Pittsburgh game last year and in previous seasons where the players pad up and work on tackling. You have to know they also discuss it watching film. It's not like they totally abandon it but the focus shifts.
Every team in the NFL is faced with the same issues. I doubt many have time to work exclusively on technique as much as they'd like once the season begins.
Not if it is a talent/inexperience issue as well which I believe to be the case.
And you see new players in camp because of it. But contracts limit any coaches ability to replace players. Fisher and Schwartz have to deal with the hand they are dealt.
And the level of talent and experience has no bearing? That's the difference I see. Technical breakdowns don't have as much impact when the guy beside you makes the play.
And I've had difficulty getting anyone to answer why Schwartz was successful in '03. Did he just decide to not teach techniques after that? Look at all the factors and tell me where the differences are between '03 and now.
If we didn't have some success under Schwartz, it's easier to point the finger at him. But the facts are he has been successful which points to other factors.