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Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by RollTide, Mar 7, 2010.
Couldn't agree with you more.
video of a conversation between Griffin and Thomas, from the Texas football website
favorite part is when he said his position was "defensive back", not a safety or corner or nickel, but all of the above
DB coach Akina at Texas loves to cross train his DB's. they all do the same drills, do one on one press and off man drills, etc.
also a note about his weight, he was 208 at the combine, but played at 195-200 during he season fyi.
Im a Texas fan obviously, so I saw all the games. He makes his plays by reading the QB in a zone system for the most part. Most of his picks were jumping routes.
However, once the ball is in the air, he makes it his. I can recall many times when he was running with a receiver and would turn around and either pick or break up the pass.
His reaction times and anticipation are simply amazing, combined with his ball skills, there were not many times the receiver could get to the ball before he did.
as a zone corner, and as an off man cover guy, he would do well at CB.
He had a pick 6 against Ok St playing in the Nickel spot also. the UT nickel formation had him at nickel and another guy at his safety spot. this was used a pretty good amount in the pass happy bigXII, so his experience at that spot is legit.
For safety, have him stay at 208 or even less, Griffin is better in run support, so have Griff bulk up a bit and keep Thomas' weight down so he keeps his quickness
If you guys took him in the 1st, maybe think about taking Lamaar Houston in the 2nd if he's there, Shipley in the 3rd, and Rodrick Muckleroy in the 4th!
solves all your needs lol
DT - Houston
DE - Trade Tony Brown for a pick or good DE
LB - Muckleroy
Slot WR/PR - Shipley
perfect draft haha
Given that the titans have a system that is smaller and quicker up front we need at least one safety who is strong in run support.
Hope has been that guy lately and we had solid guys in the past like tank williams and blaine Bishop but a combination of griffen and Thomas would be too light.
If haynesworth was still here you could get away with 2 200 lb guys but we really need that run stopping SS type now more than ever.
I love Thomas but just do see him fitting into the Titan's system, especially Griffin already back there at safety. I would probably prefer to have Taylor Mays, I personally don't care what the scouts have to say, he has Ronnie Lott written all over him.
Now if we are considering Thomas as a corner then I would be all for it, he has great cover skills and can blanket a receiver.
I personally would rather get one of the following guys with our 1st
Mike Iupati - he is a guy that can solidify the interior of our oline for many years.
Sergio Kindle - I love his versatility he is an OLB that can play DE and is a killer pass rusher
Sean Weatherspoon - not as versatile as Kindle but he is the kind of guy that teams will try and run away from
Derrick Morgan - likely won't be there at 16, but he is probably the best fit for our defense.
Rolando McClain - I see this guy and he reminds me of Mike Singletary, a guy that is going to lead a defense for the next 10 years. Again probably won't be there.
BTW I would not be against trading down to possibility get a 2nd, fact is there is more high quality 2nd round talent in this draft then I can remember.
Size is not as important as you'd think. Tank williams was a Tank in the 225lb range, but Blaine Bishop was probably lighter than Earl Thomas is right now and yet Bishop was our best tackling DB during his tenure.
Additionally, Hope is listed at 208 and Thomas weighed in at what...205? No appreciable difference.
So are you saying we need to dump Hope and draft a Mays or Chad? Or you don't want Thomas because he's too 'small?'
Except that Lott was a CB before moving to S and could cover people and knock people out equally well and he played the ball first! He also almost never missed a tackle. Mays has a LOT more BUST written all over him than Hall of Fame Safety!
Yes, but will he get us more wins? Not in this division and with our current D. It would be nice to have another Bruce Matthews at some point...
No thanks. Not good in coverage, doesn't change direction particularly well and his best feature we wouldn't utlizie (him rushing the passer) from the LB position.
He's the SAFEST pick. Graham is arguably better right now and Hughes might be better than both of them.
I watched a lot of TCU football and Hughes is not as good as advertised, I see him as more of a risk than Morgan. Graham benefited from playing on a crappy team he was the best of a bad situation. Not sure why anyone would think Kindle is not good in coverage? He didn't do a lot of coverage in 2009 but in 2008 he was nails in coverage.
The fact is Kindle can play both linebacker and DE. A valuable asset to have in the NFL.
What the heck is wrong with you people?
I keep watching Thomas "highlights" to figure out why anyone even thinks he's worth a 1st round pick. What am I not seeing?
He gets slaughtered by average sized receivers- can't shed blocks, meaning he'll suck in run support. Even when he does get off blocks, he completely whiffs tackles usually due to playing as if he's scared to hit someone.
He plays extremely soft. Especially for a safety. Same girly style we're seeing from Griffin now, and I didn't see it from Griffin when he was in college... so once this kid has to actually hit bigger targets he'll probably try his best to arm tackle with no success.
His interceptions look like flukes too. Where the QB just simply didn't see him and made a bad throw. Not much of him reading a QB and jumping the route or anything.
He doesn't seem like that great of a safety prospect... so trying to change him to corner? That'd be a wasted pick.
He plays safety in college because he's too slow- yet he can make the jump to bigger/faster receivers in the NFL? His BEST 40 yard time was 4.44... and before the combine, typically a 4.5- and people think he can play corner?
Nick Harper would blaze this guy in a foot race.
My wrists are slit if we take this guy at 16.
Help me see what you guys are seeing...
I've watched a lot of tape on all of the guys mentioned. I like Hughes a lot because he and graham are the highest motor guys of all the DE's and it shows on the field. Hughes, coming off 15 sacks got doubled on nearly every play...and he still had 11 sacks and led his D (and team) to a great ranking/finish/record. Morgan was also more the sole focus of opposing offenses so I'm fine with you think Morgan is a safer pick. They're both good. I just don't see how you rate Kindle over Hughes. As for Hughes not being as good as advertised? I think Hughes 26 sacks says differently.
How the heck would Graham 'benefit' from playing on a bad team? All that means is he's the focus of the offense and will get a LOT of double and triple teaming. He still dominated!
Don't you find it interesting that if Kindle is all you and a lot of people say he is, why did he become LESS productive and why did they change his role? Kindle also had a LOT more help on D than Morgan, Hughes, and Graham put together. If he was so good in coverage, why didn't he do it more? If he was so good a pass rusher, why did he have less than 10 sacks playing at a position that suits him?
I don't think Kindle can play 4-3 DE nor 43 OLB. He doesn't play the run well enough against OL, doesn't use his hands that well. He could develop quite nicely, but he's a bit of gamble. Kindle is a valuable asset....but I'd take Morgan, Hughes or Graham over him.
That's funny, he's faster than Harper used to be and fast enough to play CB.
Let's breakdown the first minute of the tape. This is a good highlight/lowlight reel as it shows what he does well, what he DOESN'T do well and how he was used.
Play 1 - ET(Earl Thomas) is playing left (defenses) 1/2 field S. He's close to LOS due to it being short yardage. UT runs a man under scheme. Offense uses a backdoor rub play to free their WR. ET's makes the tackle for a 6 yd gain. He cleaned up for the CB or LB who got rubbed off. Solid play and shows good reaction time and solid tackle.
Play 2 (13 seconds) - ET is playing 1/2 field S on defenses right. He stays within strinking distance of both his WR reads, sees the immediate attack down the seam and breaks perfectly. He cuts IN FRONT of the WR and goes for the INT showing his read, reaction and ball skills. Hard to tell if he misjudged the ball a bit or it was also deflected by the other defender.
Play 3 (37 seconds) - ET is aligned INSIDE of the slot WR. Clearly his goal was to take away all inside routes and to anticipate an outside breaking route with the S helping out over top if the slot goes strictly vertical. ET slow played him..forcing him upfield, watching him closely and waiting for the outside break. When it came, he undercut the WR and knocked the ball away. Good understanding of the scheme, how to play it, good read, anticipation, and break.
Play 4 (48 seconds) - This was the first chink in his armor. Again aligned inside of a slot (Bryant), they ran a flare out with Dez knowing on 1st down ET would have to read run first and he did which is what allowed Bryant to get outside. When Bryant stutter stepped it forced ET to pause (to prevent over running in case of a cutback) and Bryant was able to elude him by ourunning him. 7yds given up. Not good, not bad.
Play 5 (54 seconds) - This was a bad play for the video. Thomas I think is the blitzing DB which forces a quick throw. He's definitely NOT the DB chasing (#21 as ET is #12).
Play 6 (61 seconds) - This is a great play and a good example of why it appears he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Remember back in play 3 they were in man coverage and ET stayed way inside to prevent an inside route and when the slot ran the out, he undercut it. Well, the DC with the playcall and ET's initial reaction fooled the QB. The QB thought it'd be man again. If you can't complete the out to the slot with the outside WR running deep, you invert the routes. They had the slot run down the seam to move ET deep and then have the outside WR run an in route where ET would have cleared out. When you hear about players READING route combinations...this is EXACTLY what they're talking about. ET let the WR get even with him, then turned to run with him. As he turned, he checked the outside WR for the obvious route combination. It was there and the WR was wide open. Turn and look for the ball and it was right there...good hands for the pick and BOOM SHACKALAKA...Pick 6. This is the kind of play that Asante Samuels makes and features knowing the scheme really really well, have good read/react skills, good break, good anticpation of the ball, good ball awareness and good hands and good speed!
Later in the tape you see some of his negatives...occasionally trying to tackle with bad technique. Even in run plays he's cleaning up from the backside, he frequently beats the unblocked safety closer to the ballcarrier.
He does have excellent range and playmaking skills!