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Barwin ran a 4.47 at Cincinnati's Pro Day

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by GLinks, Mar 25, 2009.

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  1. GLinks Titans on the Rise

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    http://www.walterfootball.com/proday2009march19.php


    I'm gonna throw this out there: who thinks the Titans could go this route at 30, and who wonders just how much this guy has Washburn's attention?

    Who was the DE Jacksonville took we were so ga-ga about last year that Chris Johnson has entirely made me forget? I think he was reported to run this 40 time, but came up with 4.52 or so. Well, Barwin actually did it.

    I can see this just being one of the those picks. Sure, we'd get lambasted some, but I believe a lot of pundits would immediately recognize and put faith in Washburn's superior ability to make Barwin worthy of the pick. Though, year one, I'd only use him on ST, 3rd down defense, and goal line situations on offense (a la Mike Vrabel).
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  2. Smart***Titan Camp Fodder

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    I like Barwin and all, but I just don't see the value there to take him in the first round. I think other players will be available. He's a high motor guy, which I like, but he is definitely a "tweener" that would be more ideal as a 3-4 end. Quentin Groves is the guy you are thinking about, and he got rag dolled on a regular basis last season. He's listed as 3 lbs heavier than Barwin.

    And I wouldn't put a lot of stock in Pro Day numbers... as Kiper said today, what guy hasn't had a good Pro day workout? Almost everyone magically improves upon their recent numbers from the combine every year...
  3. GLinks Titans on the Rise

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    I agree about the pro day numbers, but a 4.47 is what it is, and he popped eyes at the Combine.

    I completely disagree, not about the label "tweener," but about being more ideally suited to 3-4 end. That's just a popular thing to say about a guy who's a light 4-3 DE, or heavier LB, to get people to follow these guys and follow the process for their team's sake. Most of them haven't played in a 3-4 before, so how can anyone say "they're better suited." You can take an educated guess, but it's still a guess. And pure BS in the end.

    Not your fault, but I hate that argument. I don't think anyone would suppose Kearse would have been any more productive his first three years, yet he carried the same label. Ford carried the same label. I do not, will not, cannot or whatnot, ever, subscribe to that soundbyte. I have it on permanent ignore.
  4. GLinks Titans on the Rise

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    Another thing. Concerning the future of the DL, I see it like this. Kearse and Ball are probably gone after this year. That leaves KVB, who I want to re-sign, Ford and Hayes. KVB and Kearse are perfect mentors for Barwin, and I don't have to mention Washburn in this. KVB for the motor, Kearse for the the athleticism.

    I would take Barwin in the second, but I'd trade up to do it. This year, as I said above, I would mainly use him as a 3rd down specialist, special teams, and probably certain blitz packages. Anticipating that this unit has been about speed on the end, where we suffered when we didn't have it, I don't see us going back. The trend is clear: DEs who run in the mid-low 4.6 range. Hayes and Ford have been a part of it. He's clearly coachable and a cerebral player, and that's something Jeff certainly likes.

    The way I would try to trade up would be targeting Detroit's 2nd rounder. I'd be willing to offer as much as #62, Dave Ball (Jimmy could use him) plus our 4th or 6th round pick. Then we'd have #30 and 32. Take a WR like Nicks or Britt in one, take a CB like Smith, DE like Barwin, DT like Gilbert, C like Mack, LB like Matthews, DE like English, etc.
  5. Soxcat Starter

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    I just hope this guy doesn't turn out like so many workout warriors we see bomb but he does seem to be a spectacular athlete with some solid football instincts.
  6. RollTide Pro Bowler

    Bishop
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    He is not ideally suited to be a 3-4 end he is too small. In a 3-4 he would play OLB. 3-4 ends are the size of our DTs. In a 4-3 system like ours he could play DE.

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/connor-barwin?id=71197

    According to nfl.com he ran a 4.66 at the combine and lifted 21 times and had a very good cone time.

    Note that he has only played on the defensive side of the ball for one year after moving from TE. Still put up solid numbers with 10 sacks.
  7. RollTide Pro Bowler

    Bishop
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    I'm getting a little irritated at this washburn the miracle worker refrain. washburn is a good coach but no position coach can make a pile of crap good. we have had under achieving defensive linemen before many thought AH was an under achiever before a contract year.

    Washburn may be the best d-line coach in the league but even the best can't work miracles if you don't draft talented people to start with that fit your system.
  8. GLinks Titans on the Rise

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    I feel ya (sorry, cuz I'm guilty, too), but not only do I think Barwin is good enough to learn and do well, I think the Titans would put him in places to succeed. Besides, as a first-rounder, he'd be here 5 years. Signing KVB to a 3 or 4 year extension would be perfect. I'd bring him in on 3rd down and certain blitz situations, which I can see being a huge value with no Albert, plus ensuring ST stays dominant is big with me right now, even if it's the less glamorous phase.

    I'm okay with taking him in one or two (2's better because we could still get a top person who is more proven, I don't disagree) because the Titans could afford to let him marinate for a few years before he would be needed as a starter. He could finally take over for KVB in 3-4 years. Having a guy with Kyle work ethic and Jevon's athleticism...I just want the Titans to find a way to work the guy into the picture somewhere.
  9. Gut Starter

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    Um...

    Ball is not gonna get us anywhere in rnd 2. A 4th and a 6th would move us up about 5-6 spots in rnd 2...not even to the middle of the rnd let alone to the top of it...

    Again, would you rather have Nicks, Barwin, Matthews, Mack, ASmith, ect or would you rather drop to the bottom of rnd 2 (meaning you probably can't get any of those players you want) in order to get Ball and another 4 and 6...assuming you're Detroit? If you're Schwartz, you want to drop maybe 5 spots so you still get one of the players you want AND extra draft picks...not fall 30 spots for a backup DE and an extra 4th (also at the bottom).

    Gut
  10. Gut Starter

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    The 'knock' on Barwin is that despite his high motor, toughness, intelligence and ability to play 3 positions (and deliver 10 sacks his first year playing D), he's not a fast twitch athlete. He doesn't have that sudden step. As an OLB or TE, he doesn't need it. High might have a harder time as a 4-3 DE simply because he doesn't have the first step a lot of the top DE's have. However, he is strong, uses his hands well, changes direction well and is a HIGH MOTOR guy...a lot like KVB except faster.

    It bodes well that he played that well at DE his first year playing the position, but what's his learning curve in the Pro's at DE? He certainly has skills and talent for Washburn to mold and enhance...but is he gonna turn into another KVB or a Justin Smith type? I think he has more value to a 3-4 team (at ILB or OLB) but I think he can play RDE in a 4-3...

    Gut
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