Robert ayers is the man!

You're funny...

Really? I think I proved my point and telling you exactly where and how I got my numbers. Seems hardly dishonest...

I only used official combine times or verified Pro Day times. I didn't use any times that nfldraftscout made up.

[quoteWell nfl draft scout has ayers running a 4.77![/quote]

Since there is no source for that time, I didn't use it...just as I discarded any fast time I couldn't verify.

And I said I used them, BUT I check my work...meaning if I don't have a good reason to believe a time they put, I DON'T use it...as in Ayers mysterious 4.77. If you look at a lot of the times they list for 40 when you look at players as a list, a lot of those times are off. If you go to each player and read the descriptions...especially there pro days...in general, you will have an accurate number. I also checked their pro day numbers against at least one other person's to make sure THOSE weren't made up.

Yes, I noticed you discount all players who didn't run at the combine, don't believe a player can improve a time, and ignore all pro day information.

To bad NFL teams RELY on this info to move players up or down on their draft boards.

I didn't assume they are faster...they RAN faster!!! And what caliber player they are has no bearing on the discussion of whether a DE's 4.90 speed at 272lbs is slow. The FACT that there are NUMEROUS players who will go undrafted who have as good or BETTER 40 times PROVES that 4.90 is a slow time for a 272lb DE.

You can dream...

Gut

 

Lol...

A 255lb English running a 4.74. I believe this HELPS my point...

Ayers played for Tenn. He CHOSE not to run at their pro day...probably because he didn't think he could better his time of 4.90. Why else would he NOT run? If he thought he could improve his time...it'd likely make him MILLIONS of dollars.

Only downside of not running is running the same speed or worse...confirming he's slow. He wasn't injured, so he could have (SHOULD HAVE) run if he's faster than 4.90.

Gut

 

Huh?

Why can't I compare a guys combine number to a pro day number? NL teams and scouts do...why can't we?

As for a player who ran worse on their pro day? No problem. DJ Moore. NFL.com has his 40 at 4.56. Here's his pro day results...

"Vanderbilt Pro day: CB D.J. Moore (5-9, 184 pounds) ran a 4.59 and 4.57 in the 40 with a 5-10 mph wind at his back. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com"

And that was with a tail wind! Point proved.

I could, but that wouldn't be accurate. I don't discount pro days, combine invitees who chose not to run, nor uninvited players.

I listed the ONLY accurate time we have for Ayers. He chose not to run at his pro day. And cherry picking? Did you pick Ayers fastest or slowest time with no source? His fastest without any indication of where that number came from...and nothing to back it up.

You are the ONLY person in this discussion who gave a number without a confirmed source (Ayers 4.77 40).

So Ayers wouldn't necessarily run faster because the combine is 'slower'...as proved by DJ Moore's SLOWER Pro Day time. The ONLY way to compare Ayers is to use his best accurate time...4.90. The other players I compared his to RAN faster times. That's the fact!

Gut

 

This is fun...

I'm sure the players that worked out extremely hard for an extra month or so would be happy to hear that you discount all the extra work they did to improve their times at there pro day. Do you think in 2 tries at the combine, they didn't give there best effort? Even IF that were so, they SHOULD be then running in their pro day after busting their tail for a month or so. Guys like Ayers who don't and had slow times at the combine raise a flag!

If you said Ayers improved his time on his Pro Day...then obviously you are using his combine time for comparison to his pro day time or you wouldn't say IMPROVED. Therefore, you compared a combine time to a pro day time. Why wouldn't you. He improved his time. Can you say he DIDN'T improve those times?

Gut

 

Amusing...

LOL...that is funny!

Here is my quote..."I only used official combine times or verified Pro Day times."

Prove I'm a liar. Please list the player(s) I listed that don't have an official combine number or a verified pro day number. Thank you. I won't even demand a retraction!

While you would like me to ignore the 20+ players that ran faster (at the combine or in pro days), to do so would be completely innaccurate. It is silly to eliminate pro day results considering it is vital to NFL teams and YOU YOURSELF have commented on how Ayers improved 2 times in his pro day. You can't say how much he improved at his pro day and then say it doesn't count...

You said players are always faster in pro days and asked me to show you a player who ran SLOWER. I did. And yet you still claim pro day times are invalid because they're too fast? I PROVED THIS NOTION TO BE FALSE. Maybe you chose not to read that part. There is a VERY good reason players run FASTER at pro days. It's called TRAINING!!! It's the same reason players get better verticals (which can't be affected by different surfaces) or lift 225lbs with more reps (is that affected by astroturf?). If you ran a 40 today and then trained at it for a month or so, you'd be surprised at how much faster you could run!

And what number did you use for Ayers in saying he's the man? His slowest time? The avg of his times? When comparing players...YOU CHOSE the fastest time...just like everyone else (though you're calling everyone ELSE a liar - classy). Only difference between you and me is...I get a confirmed # before I put it up there.

I know you're not going to argue with me on this. You can't win. All you can do is call me names...and not actually counter any point I've made with facts.

And FYI, the original debate had nothing to do with combine vs pro days...it had to do with whether a 272lb DE running a 4.90 was slow. The FACT that many players who ran this time or faster at heavier weights, proves that a 272lb DE who runs a 4.90 is SLOW for his position.

Here endeth the debate.

Gut