Rational Re-build discussion

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Riverman, Oct 6, 2009.

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  1. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor

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    already had a young murder on the team, didn't much care for him
     
  2. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor

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    as for rebuilding. Under MR Titans have locked up KEY YOUNG Starters. This alone sets MR above the FR era of Titan football.

    If JF would bench Mawe for Amano and CC would take more risks on third down, D getting ripped by the 1000 cuts of death not so much the big play. Just gotta get off the field more, cause more punts and CREATE some TOs.

    a little rambling CJ is a great athlete, top HB in the NFL, BUT I am not sure he is the answer for Fisherball. I say give Slimdale more touches and find a way too get CJ and LW in the backfield at the same time. Would give the LBs some serious decisions too make, but it won't happen just like Mawe will continue to start no matter how bad he stinks.
     
  3. gainer_titans

    gainer_titans Camp Fodder

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    First time poster, long time lurker just had to get in on this. I didn't see it mentioned in the previous post, but when we do this rebuilding, and it will have to happen even if we do turn this season around which is in great doubt right now, it will be under an uncapped off-season. Unless the contract situation with players assoc. is worked out that means we pretty much lose all our people not under contract unless Adams is ready to shed out the dough, which in history he has not shown to do. We are a small market team anyways. That being said I believe this is how it will break down...

    Offense:
    Collins is history either way. Even if VY sucks it up. We can't afford 2 qb making that much money. That being said if VY does well this season when he gets a chance (I'm betting after the bye week) we keep him if not then that were we would go with draft. Injured shoulder in all Sam Bradford will be a good qb. Lendale is gone. We can afford Bo.

    Defense:
    We are getting raped here. Too many good players going FA. KVB and Kearse gone. Harper gone. Pretty much all our defensive stars gone might have enough cash to keep Bulluck. We go 2nd round draft if VY works out, if not first rd LB.

    Coaching:
    We are keeping Fisher simply because of the contract. The only way I see losing him is going with a young unknown coach or Cecil (god forbid) or someone else stepping up. Just try to go get Cowher or Gruden in an uncapped year your're talking some serious dough.

    Anyways, that my 2 cents..go Titans
     
  4. Eddyc85

    Eddyc85 Go Bucks!

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    I'm starting to think people only want Eric Berry because he plays for Tennessee. He's a good player but if you go defense in round one it has to be a defensive end. Not getting pressure is the problem not coverage. I still say the best way to rebuild is with a young QB. Get rid of the two we have now, add a vet, and go from there.
     
  5. Deuce Wayne

    Deuce Wayne NOW Y'ALL GET THE MESSICH?!

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    BUT...

    [​IMG]

    No.
     
  6. GLinks

    GLinks Second Gear

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    Bulluck and Thornton are not 3-4 LBers to any degree. They are strictly 4-3 backers. Ford and Hayes would be the OLB in this scheme. Brown and Jones would be the DE. Would need someone heavier than both to be the NT, by a good amount.

    Our LB depth would be pretty shot. KVB would have to go as well. He's getting on in age and didn't fare well when the Cards played a 3-4, due in part to injury, but still, he wasn't successful when he was on the field.


    Regarding the offense, I think Heimerdiner is restricted by Fisher, myself. Fisher defines the parameters for attacking a defense week to week, and the gameplan is designed within those confines. I think Heimerdinger wants to try different things, but Fisher is lost somewhere in his own head.

    He's like Marlon Brando in "Apocalypse Now," which is what this season has looked like so far.
     
  7. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Here's the problem...

    Any high quality D player would help, but the if we are going to continue to run this D as is, we need a legit 10 sack a year pass rusher. A great corner or LB or S is nice, but it isn't gonna change our current problem...little if any pass rush from our DE's.

    Why would you want to pay Lendale starters money when he hasn't been a starter since his first year and trade CJ? Unless CJ wins the Offensive MVP, you won't get enough back for him. RB's are a dime a dozen and even though he's special, you would not get his equivalent back at DE....which is what we need.

    Frankly, we blew it a couple of years agao when Jared Aleen had his 2 DWI's and KC was looking to trade him. While it was a risk, you don't get that kind of opportunity any other way. And how has that worked out for Minny?

    Trading CJ doesn't make sense because the return won't be as good and he's our best offensive player. They should package some players together now and trade them...NOW!!! White is expendable, Scaife, Crumpler or Stevens are expendable, Mawae is expendable (but no one will give us anything for him), and Harper is expendable. I would even entertain trading away KVB, Kearse and Senderrick Marks. Get draft picks unless we can get young players at positions we want (DE, CB, OC/OG).

    VY will either play well enough to earn his money and be our starter next year or he's cut. If VY plays very well, bye bye KC and welcome a new backup (preferably Culpepper/Garcia). If VY doesn't play well, KC is our QB next year and we either get a new backup or draft a franchise guy...but we won't definitely draft a QB in rnd 1.

    And keep in mind we don't have a 2nd rnd pick this year so it's hard to draft a great DE, QB, OC/OG, CB and LB in rnd 1.

    Gut
     
  8. GLinks

    GLinks Second Gear

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    I would NOT want Culpepper under any circumstance.

    I would not mind giving Alex Smith a shot, however, in a camp competition.

    Word is this QB draft class is weak, and a lot of juniors to boot. I think that anomalous window of "rookies who can contribute immediately" is closing. I'd keep an eye on that Pike kid, however.
     
  9. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Well...

    You can look up how many 4-3 DE's have gone from being pass rushing monsters to a 3-4 OLB and remained a pass rushing monster. I don't think you will find many if at all. We have immediate evidence that an excellent pass rushing 43 DE is having a terrible time trying to play 34 OLB in Kampman. He's avg like 12 sacks a year for the last 3 years in a row. Could he dip down to 7-8? Sure. But usually it doesn't JUST happen, there are reasons for it whether it be age, change of personel or scheme. In this case, it's scheme AND position. Just watching the game you can see he's a bit lost....and that's because he's trying to think too much rather than react. He doesn't have the system ingrained and I don't think he has good coverage skills.

    You can say the tooth fairy, straw man, scare crow, tin man or whatever you like. Watch a game and learn how defenses work and the personel to make them work and then you'll know what's right and what's not.

    And for TBC, when you reference an article to prove your point, use a legit source and don't pick an article that DISPROVES your point.

    Gut
     
  10. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Um...

    Since you don't know what anyone does or doesn't understand, it's not a FACT, it's your opinion/perception.

    Correct, Kampman not being able to adjust to be an OLB in a 3-4 doesn't prove than any other 4-3 DE can't do it. However, no is arguing whether it's possible for someone to do it. We are arguing over whether the Titans DE's can do it. If you look at the physical skills of the players in question, they differ from physical skills of players who have exceeded well in the 3-4 at OLB. The NFL measures players against NFL norms. Why? To get a baseline of predictability. Does it mean you can't be a too small DT or a too slow LB or whatever? No. But in general, if you don't meet those norms, you have a greater chance at not playing to NFL norms. So if you take players that are below avg for the position you're projecting them to, the likelihood is that they will not play to even an avg level...let alone a superior one. Can you argue that KVB could become the greatest 3-4 OLB in the history of the game? Sure, but it's highly unlikely it would happen.

    So explain to me which is more likely. KVB getting 10 sacks as a 4-3 DE or him learning a new position for which he doesn't have the 'norm' athleticism for, doesn't have any experience playing, doesn't have experience reading coverages, doesn't have experience reading coverages from multiple positions in a zone defense, does'nt know good drop techniques, doesn't have much coverage techniques in man or zone, would have to learn new reads, would have to learn new reads from multiple positions of alignment, would have to learn different run fits from various different alignments, would have to learn route combinations, would have to get used to communicating checks for front 7 and back 7 audibles and how his responsibilities can change on the fly with a motioned player AND then being dominant at this position assuming we have a coach who knows how to run a 3-4 (we don't) and how to run it effectively (we don't).

    So which is more likely? keep in mind, we draft and sign players because they have athletic skill sets that fit the positions for our current defense. If you look at the positions of a successful 3-4 D, the athletic baseline for those positions is very different from what our players have.

    And as a hint, we've already seen KVB drop into a zone where he's been lost or tried to run after a RB swinging out of the backfield on an exotic blitz where he had the back...he wasn't even close. So current proof is that he's not a suitable candidate to move to this position. If you'd like to 'prove' otherwise, please provide some evidence than a straw man argument which is only your attempt to disprove our argument while not proving your own in any way.

    You have no argument. I figured it out, thanks.

    Gut
     
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