Prius a Carbon Guzzler?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by GoT, Jan 30, 2008.

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  1. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor

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    Today's Pravda on the Cumberland had an article about an "improved" Prius that has a battery plugIn option. Claims to not use gasoline for the first few miles, instead using yet another battery. Now unless I am wrong, and I NEVER AM, plugging your Prius into an electric outlet does not make your Prius run clean, matter of fact that electricity is probably just a conventional coal fired electrical plant's output being transferred into the Prius. NOT FREE Energy NOT CLEAN Energy NOT 100mpg or whatever they claim.

    Plugging your car into an electrical outlet is just transferring your pollution from your tailpipe and into a poor persons backyard, because there are no electrical generation stations in Brentwood are there?
     
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  2. That may be true in many cases, but it's not 100% and it also depends on what your goal is.

    As far as energy sources, you are just using more electricity in exchange for less gas. And yes, a lot of our electricity comes from coal. I think about 50% comes from coal and maybe 20% comes from natural gas and oil. But the alternative is 100% gasoline. Plus, as time goes on, we'll use more and more alternative energy sources (especially solar).

    Some people pay more to get more alternative energy power that isn't using coal. Other locations may be powered by a nuclear plant or dam or other alternate source. And others may have their own solar panels to generate electricity. So it really just depends on where your power comes from. Also, it's possible (I don't know with that model) that the electric motor will also be more efficient that the gas engine and get more efficiency from electricity than from gas.

    Then you have the financial aspect, ignoring the CO2 issue. Recharging your battery may be cheaper per mile than buying the difference in gas.

    I have a 2007 Prius and I love it. I don't know what they change in the plug-in models in terms of the efficiency and power of the electric motor. If they can make it more efficient than the gas engine then it can be a big improvement regardless of the fact that we use a lot fossil fuels to generate electricity. Plus, we use a lot of non-fossil fuel sources for electricity, too.
     
  3. Also, for what it's worth, it's entirely incorrect to call it a carbon guzzler. Even if the plug-in version doesn't save any more CO2 than the non-plug-in version I have, it still gets way better mileage than most any conventional car on the roads here. I average 50mpg right now. Even more in the fall when it was warmer (the engine didn't have to warm up as long or as much).
     
  4. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor

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    I had a "regular" car in Australia that got +50mpg, of course I had to convert from km/l but whatever. It was a 2 cylendar Subaru Sherpa. Loved that car. Would be considered a micro car here, but they don't sell such beasts in the US.

    [​IMG]

    not my actual car. For illustration purposes only. Mine was entry level - NO A/C. Lived in Alice Springs so everything was within a 5 min drive anyways so no biggie.
     
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  5. KTOWN TITAN

    KTOWN TITAN Orca Fighter

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    That car is sweet. Sucks our own culture will not allow car companies to sell vehicles like that here. The perfect "clean" car will be self sustaining and need no charge. Everything else is just to help out for now until the tech can catch up. I still think hydrogen is the long term answer over hybrids, biofuels ect. We have a ways to go.
     
  6. KTOWN TITAN

    KTOWN TITAN Orca Fighter

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    Imagine a vehicle that has a hydrogen engine. The only emissions would be water. 0 carbon and a little water. The only problem is that currently manufacturing hydrogen on a large scale would produce severe amounts of pollution as well. A couple of studies I've seen have showed some interesting ideas. One scientist has come up with a metal alloy that somewhat oxidizes when put in water and the only byproduct is pure hydrogen. Think about pulling up to a gas station and putting a hand full of metal pellets into your vehicle that would produce hydrogen within your car. Running low on fuel? Hit a switch and the car would produce its own fuel. Sounds strange but it is true. The tech is all around us. It is just gonna take a company or companies to get the ball rolling. Researchers are also working with engineered types of bacteria that could produce hydrogen as a byproduct of their own photosynthesis type process. Imagine gas station with its tanks filled with bacteria producing hydrogen right there on sight. If a few people can come up with these ideas imagine what a company like Ford could do with millions in research and development. Sad the oil companies are in their back pocket.
     
  7. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor

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    I don't think anyone is stopping Subaru from importing the Sherpa to the US.

    They are limited to the number of imports they can bring in, I still think that is the law, so most foreign companies import their more upscale more profitable cars into the US.

    Real nich would be to build a micro car, that meets US road safety standards -so the Indian Tantra is out- in the US. Problem is cultural. Although I would gladly pay around 5-6, possibly 7 thousand for a micro car that gets 50+ mpg, most people would not be caught dead in such a vehicle. I would only use a car like that for commuting and short trips, but hey that is like 95% of my driving.

    Its catch22. That Smart42 or whatever it is called is just too expensive. No way I drop 15 thousand on a micro. but that is me
     
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  8. avvie

    avvie It's another cold day in Hell Tip Jar Donor

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    I was born yesterday
    When they brought my Kamakiri
    When they handed me the keys
    It's a steam-power 10
    The frame is out of Glasgow
    The tech is Balinese
    It's not a freeway bullet
    Or a bug with monster wheels
    It's a total biosphere
    The farm in the back
    Is hydroponic
    Good, fresh things
    Every day of the year

    -Donald Fagen, "The Trans-Island Skyway"
     
  9. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor

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    Kamakiriad - what a great albumn

    Best song on it - Flordia Room
     
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  10. guitarjunkie

    guitarjunkie We're Screwed...

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    Did you know the only by products of gasoline are CO2 and water? It is all but impossible to do this in a piston driven engine. The problem is you can't completely seal the combustion chamber, continually maintain the optimal air/ fuel ratio, engine timing, and other factors such as poor maintenance.
    While I don't buy into the "Global Warming" :bsflag:, I do think we should do what we can to keep things tidy. Here's some things you can do to you vehicle that will help you and the environment.

    Tune up- in addition to getting you better mileage and saving money, it will help your engine burn fuel better thereby allowing your catalytic converter to do it's job which is cleaning up the exhaust and reducing emissions. Also ever notice that little drip from your tail pipe? It's water a sign your converter is doing it's job and finishing off that gasoline that made it through. It doesn't hurt to have your emissions checked, let's you know how well your engine and it's components are doing.

    Change your oil every 5000 miles and recycle it. Most manufacturers recommend it nowadays. By increasing the interval you are using less oil.

    KEEP YOUR TIRES AIRED UP TO PROPER SPECS!! It reduces the rolling resistance allowing your engine to work less, reducing fuel consumption. And your brakes will work better.

    This ain't gonna fix every thing but it helps alot till something better comes along!

    The Prius is not eco friendly. And not knocking anybody most people I know that have the love them. By the time you mine the resources, manufacture the parts, ship everything, and build it, costs more than what it saves. Then there's the off chance you wreck in/ near a body of water, rupture the battery and contaminate a river or stream.

    I'm not sold on alternative fuels either. Ethanol costs more to produce than the energy it contains. Bio diesel is promising but who knows what other emissions it produces, then you still have to figure in particulate matter.
    Hydrogen, same as bio diesel, less particulates.

    Still with any of these fuels, you still have the same type engine. Until some one builds a better mouse trap. I don't think this will progress very much.
     
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