Pacman Appeal Thread

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by goTitans.com, May 11, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MJTitans

    MJTitans Chris Whitley look him up

    1,831
    346
    309
    I agree - I'm amazed at how stupid he is.

    His 1st year wasn't so hot, but last year he put up completion numbers equal to Champ Bailey... "shutdown" corners are so rare people say they don't really exist anymore. But we might have one.

    The way I see it is this - the league and player's union hog-tied the franchises and prevented them from implementing their own real discipline until now. Fisher did what he was allowed to do to keep Pac under control, and looking at his trend of violations, it actually seemed to be working... He was out of control his 1st season/offseason, and has begun to clam down since.

    Now Goodell steps in an realizes the mess the NFL allowed to develop, and begins to retroactively punish players (and therefore their teams). He chooses Pac as the worst offender, which overall is correct but recently he had been improving (again depending on your thoughts of Vegas). It just stinks a bit that the Titans essentially lose a 1st round draft pick for something they were not allowed to control, but appeared to be doing the best they could. Pac has improved, but not enough. He deserved a 1 year suspension a year ago, but without the consideration of Vegas I don't see how he deserves a year now - since his last 1 game suspension that Fisher gave him he's kept out of trouble.

    <b>Addendum:</b> but his attitude still kinda stinks, and that's the biggest reason he got a year.
     
  2. BigSteve09

    BigSteve09 Camp Fodder

    151
    1
    0
    why dont we see how he acts after whatever suspension he gets is over before we start condemning him. personally, i think pac has a lot to offer
     
  3. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

    15,534
    6,204
    1,099
    A probation is not a conviction. The ruling on the Murfreesboro stipulated that the case would be dismissed if he could avoid further problems. That is neither a conviction nor a probation, but merely a deferral of the ruling to a later time.

    This has been the crux of my problem with Goodell acting as the NFL conduct policy judge and jury. He has promoted himself to a position of "league protector" in regards to the conduct policy and relegated due process in a court of law to lesser relevance. In essence, Goodell doesn't really care if a player is guilty or not, only how incidents and allegations affect the image of the league. That is how he decides who receives punishment and how much.

    Clearly the precedent of Goodell not needing a conviction to enforce punishment was set with Pacman's case. Now, as other players emerge with allegations, the league issues statements that it is more proper to wait for a court of law to determine guilt before the league imposes suspensions. THIS IS A CLEAR BREACH of policy enforcement precedent that was established with Pacman. Is the change of policy because Pacman has threatened to sue them for unfair labor practice or is it because there is more money at stake when players like Tank Johnson, Michael Vick, Jerry Porter and other bigger market players have allegations leveled against them?

    Let's keep these issues clearly separated from the totally other issue of whether or not we "like" Pacman or asses his character. Every player (liked or disliked) is entitled to justice, due process and "fairness".
     
  4. dg1979us

    dg1979us Pro Bowler

    13,042
    1,215
    769

    Probation is a legal punishment for something you have done wrong. You are not put on probation if you are found not guilty in the courts. Sentences are not deferred for people who are found not guilty in the courts. Maybe it is wiped from his record now, but he was still punished by the legal system. Not to mention he violated 2 league rules. Sorry, but Vick has not even been arrested at this point, much less charged with anything, so you cannot compare Vick and Pac's situations as of now.

    And anyway, if you want to suspend players for nothing more than allegations (which hasnt happened yet), then dont you have to issue a longer suspension for Pac because of Vegas? I really see no difference in Pac and Vick's situation at this point. Both are being investigated for their roles in a crime. You are calling for Vick to be suspended for that, so to be fair, you have to call for Vegas to play into Pac's suspension do you not?
     
  5. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

    15,534
    6,204
    1,099
    I don't know what else to say except your wrong. Look it up in a legal dictionary.

    On another note- I really don't care what happens to Vick. I reference him because of statements made by league officials and pro-league media regarding the possibility of Vick getting indicted and if/when the league would impose penalties if this occurred.

    I want a commissioner and a conduct policy that is equitably enforced. I actually like the idea of player accountability and agree that something had to be done. I just don't like the inequitable nature of how it has been administered.
     
  6. dg1979us

    dg1979us Pro Bowler

    13,042
    1,215
    769

    I am not wrong. A deferred sentence is usually given through a plea deal. Plea deals are given when the defendent pleads guilty to something. Are you honestly telling me that people found not guilty in a court of law are given deferred sentences? THats ridiculous. LIke I said, maybe it has been removed from his record now, but there were legal ramifications from the Mboro incident. That really isnt debateable.

    What is inequitable about Vick? He hasnt even been charged yet much less found guilty of anything. So, I am baffled why you think he is being given preferential treatment at this point. Tank, Pac, and Henry all had legal and/or league violations before their suspensions. Vick has neither at this point. So again, please explain to me why you somehow think he is getting preferential treatment as of right no.
     
  7. Vigsted

    Vigsted Starter

    5,774
    702
    479
    If they plead no contest (Nolo contendere) they can get a plea bargin and a deferred sentence even if they have not admitted guilt nor been found guilty by the court.
     
  8. dg1979us

    dg1979us Pro Bowler

    13,042
    1,215
    769
    Ok maybe so, but again, there are still legal ramifications from it, because if you screw up within the 6 month time frame then the deferred sentence has a chance to stick. Vick's current situation cannot be compared to Pac's at this point because Vick has no legal or league violations. Which is my whole point of this discussion.
     
  9. Haynesworth92

    Haynesworth92 Fat Albert

    375
    0
    0
    Vegas is clearly the reason Pac was suspended because that's what sparked the whole controversey and brought all the other issues to light. It's what led to the public outcry and basically what forced Goodell to do something. In fact, I'd contend that if the Vegas incident never happened, not only would Pacman not be suspended but neither would Chris Henry or Tank Johnson. It's unfortunate that that's what caused it because it's the only event where there is absolutely nothing to link Pacman to the crime.
     
  10. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

    15,534
    6,204
    1,099
    I'll try again.

    Goodell indictated in his letter the basis for the 1 year suspension was due to 4 incidents- The murfreesboro public intox/disorderly conduct and failure to report and GA "obstruction" incident and failure to report. There was NO CONVICTION, only a deferral of the REASONS GOODELL GAVE. When the suspension occurred there were several statments by the league and Goodell indicating that a conviction wasn't necessary, the new conduct policy was about "protecting the shield". (BS in my book).

    In reference to Vick: The standard (precedent) that the league was proclaimed for Pac- namely a conviction isn't necessary to receive punishment has not been applied to others. In fact, there have been statements to the opposite, since the Vick dog-fighting issue has occurred- to the effect that there needs to be a conviction (not even charges). Clearly a different standard than what was applied to Pac.

    Now, if you want to argue that Mike Vick and the Ron Mexico thing, the water bottle thing, and this dog-fighting incident don't reflect poorly and "tarnish the shield" then clearly we would have a difference of opinion. I don't really care what happens to Vick- I think Goodell and the new conduct policy is a load of BS anyway. I had hoped it was for real, but it appears to me that it is simply about protecting the money.

    APPLY THE SAME STANDARDS TO ALL PLAYERS. Really, it is that simple. That is my point.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  • Welcome to goTitans.com

    Established in 2000, goTitans.com is the place for Tennessee Titans fans to talk Titans. Our roots go back to the Tennessee Oilers Fan Page in 1997 and we currently have 4,000 diehard members with 1.5 million messages. To find out about advertising opportunities, contact TitanJeff.
  • The Tip Jar

    For those of you interested in helping the cause, we offer The Tip Jar. For $2 a month, you can become a subscriber and enjoy goTitans.com without ads.

    Hit the Tip Jar