No comments on Schwartz?

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by TitanJeff, Nov 20, 2006.

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  1. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

    I'll make this my last post on the subject because I'm only repeating myself at this point.

    The entire point of this thread is to point out, again, that Schwartz isn't the only reason for the performance of the Titans defense and that execution plays the biggest role.

    So many of you think a change at DC is all that is needed and that is totally flawed logic, IMO.

    You (Schwartz bashers) blame him when the defense blows tackles yet he gets nothing when they are tackling well. Funny, how that scheme improves when the front four can get a pass rush or the Titans don't whiff on tackles.

    You only point out the gashing by Westbrook in the second half yet totally ignore the Titans D only gave up 20 yards to him the entire first half in their normal D and he only got his yards when the team was in the nickel preventing the big play with a two touchdown lead.

    You say the game at Indy was a fluke or that Schwartz was just copying another team's scheme (like every DC in the league doesn't).

    And those of you who refuse to give the man credit for when he led a successful Ds in '02 and '03 are just attempting to rewrite history.

    For those of you who want Schwartz fired, you need to be redirecting your attention to Fisher who hired the man, keeps the man on the payroll, and signs off on the scheme you are so critical of each week.

    For those of you who blame Schwartz for poor player development or shoddy technique, you need to look to fire everyone down to the position coaches who are paid to develop these players and teach technique.

    But I suppose it is easier to blame Schwartz to those who don't care to deal in reality.
  2. Fry

    Fry Welcome to the land of tomorrow!

    kvb hasnt gotten the sacks this year because he has been schwartzed. first year with the titans, 12.5 sacks. second year with the titans, 4.

    reynaldo hill: first year with the titans, 3 picks. second year, 0.

    im going to hate to see what he does to hope next year.
  3. Brian

    Brian Big Fan

  4. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    Yes comical jeff..

    I always found that 1-4 reference interesting pertaining to 2002. Like the league placed some sanction on us to start 1-4 as if fisher, et al had nothing to do with why we sucked then only with the rest of the year. yes aliens came down and coached us to that 1-4 record and then fisher and schwartz took over.:rolleyes: Our owner came out and said we were being outcoached after that 4th loss. Remember that jeff?

    We played an almost ideal schedule for a defensive coordinator in 2002. The texans were dead last in scoring offense that year. The jags were 21st and even the colts were only 17th. We played a ravens team that was 24th and a bengals team that was 28th. Three teams we lost two had poor offenses. Cowboys 31st, redskins 25th and browns 19th.

    The steelers team(Not just the offense) averaged 24 points a game that year they scored 31 against us in the playoffs.

    The raiders team(Not just the offense) scored 28 points per game they got 41 against us.

    How is that good defense jeff? Giving up almost 30% more points then they scored against everyone else?

    Isn't that a trend we see over and over again with this team since 2001?
  5. avvie

    avvie It's another cold day in Hell Tip Jar Donor

    And yet, this still is a good idea?
  6. LT21Titans27

    LT21Titans27 Tebow Apostle

    No Comments On Eagles offense

    That should be the title, when the special teams did have the nice return, and the defense made several nice plays, I dont credit Schwartz, every defense steps up every now and then
  7. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    Jeff is right..

    We should be as willing to praise schwartz for good defensive play just as much as we are willing to bash him when the defense plays poorly. Problem is we have about 4-5 bad games for every good one.

    Sorry he sucks.

    I do agree with jeff that others are also to blame and we shouldn't just blame schwartz alone. Reese drafted bad players and fisher has done nothing to help the situation. Maybe they ALL should be canned.

    If you honestly believe that coaching isn't the problem it is just bad personel decisions draft picks etc i say fine. Floyd reese is in charge of that department. I can assume then you want him out but please don't give me this crap that all is well and we have only suffered the past 3 seasons because of bad luck or bad karma. Decisions have been made that have cuased this team to fail. The first decision in the right direction toward success is to fire one of the worst DCs in the league, jim schwartz..

    Let his "highly respected" self fail with some other team's defense.
  8. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler


    That is a debateable point because no defense succeeds without those two things. We've been missing both...a lot....which is why our D has performed so poorly for so many stretches. But yes, without good execution, it doesn't matter how good your scheme is.

    Considering our scheme - as play-called by Schwartz - appears to be lacking AND he does NOT put our most talented people in position to succeed and use the scheme to hide our players weaknesses. This is ONE reason why our execution suffers. Furthermore, our 'execution' sometimes suffers because of the design of the defensive playcall...and that is scheme. For example, not stopping Denver from rolling out is a scheme problem or an accountability problem. But when you see Bulluck not containing on a roll-out after KVB and LaBoy are constantly not keeping are left with 2 things to blame. 2 Pro Bowlers repeatedly can't keep contain or the scheme of the placall is to stop the run between the tackles and try and cover deep on the rool-outs. This is poor 'scheme/playcall' and why our execution sometimes fails.

    We didn't have a pass rush that I saw for the most part against the Eagles. And tackling is about consistency. We tackled better against the Eagles but we still missed some tackles...however, we didn't get burned completely because some other guys made saving tackles...namely Finnegan who started outside. And that brings us to the next criticism. Why keep playing players who are making the same mistakes over and over and over. You yourself said it's about execution. So why does Schwartz keep playing LT and Hill if they keeping making the same mistakes???

    We have shown to be able to play good defense for a half on occasion. GOOD JOB! However, we rarely play good defense for an entire game and also don't play good D for entire games too. Looking at Schwartz's body of work this year....he's had some good efforts (Colts and Eagles), but also some terrible ones (SD, Jags) and given up games we actually had the lead in (Baltimore). In only one of the above games did we actually win! You can argue Schwartz was a good DC in 2002 and 2003, but every year after that we've gotten worse. Yes we lost players and you'd expect a big dropoff, but then after a few years of drafting AND several free agent pickups, you'd expect the D to have shown dramatic improvement and be at least middle of the pack. It's NOT!!! In fact, we're worse!

    As much as Peyton is a machine, he also messes up at times. We played good defense for a while, but when he made adjustments to counter the same scheme we'd been running all game, Schwartz had no answers. Congratulations on holding the Colts to less yards and points than they're used to, but the D couldn't stop them when the game was on the line.

    Well, the reason for wanting Schwartz gone now is 2 fold. It doesn't hurt our season, sends a message that everyone (including Fisher) need to play/coach for their jobs, and quite likely, we'd see our defense improve. Accountability is a wonderful thing. However, there are 2 reasons why people are not quick to dump Fisher. First, he led this team to a Super Bowl so he's proven he can at least get us there. Second, we're afraid of who might take over if Fisher is fired. Yes, Fisher signs off on Schwartz and everything he does, but I don't want Fisher to be fired and then get a coach who's WORSE! Plus, we need a new GM and that guy likely will have say over Fisher and can force Fisher to stay in line (not give a Schwartz a pass on a terrible defense). With a new GM keeping Fisher accountable, this can work!

    Player development is about a few things. First is technique work (like learning new pass rush moves), second is mental work (like making reads), and last is scheme work (what do I do on each play). Position coaches teach what the DC wants. For example...if he wants an emphasis on tackling, the position coaches will emphasize tackling. But some of this is also scheme. On an average 4-3 D, the DE, OLB, or CB has run force (contain). But when we see multiple plays in which contain is lost by DE's, OLB's and CB's are playing off, it is virtually unfathomable to believe that 5 or 6 NFL players don't know how to play contain. We're not talking rookies or terrible NFL players. The ONLY time this kind of thing happens is when you scheme it (like telling the DE to forget the QB and close down the gap made by the OT who has cut inside him to go for the MLB. The DE can slide down the line and close the gap or race into the backfield. If he goes into the backfield, does he take the QB or RB?

    I also saw this in the Eagles game. They lined KVB way outside a few times but he rushed all the way inside because they were trying to run a stunt (poor design with the players needing to go so far to cross. The result was that KVB rushed hard inside and the DT took so long to get outside, that Garcia had no problem rolling outside and having time to eat a sandwich. Is that the players fault for not being able to execute the stunt? Or Schwartz's fault for running a stunt not well suited to his personel and not in a manner (formation) in which they can pull it off?

    I believe I'm dealing in TOO MUCH reality.

    But maybe that's MY fantasy...


    PS - I don't expect a response since you said it was your last post and we've covered this topic before (you and I).
  9. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    Defensive personel...

    From the 2001 draft through 2005 we drafted 23 defensive players. These are players in their 2nd - 6th season and would represent the heart of a defense.

    We lost basically 4 starting defensive players from the 2005 cap purge. Rolle-dyson-carter-schulters.

    We added 4 quality free agents on defense since then. Thornton-hope-smith-KVB. thompson was also a free agent but his quality is a matter of dispute.

    Keith bulluck remains as the only pre-2001 drafted player.

    Are you with me so far?

    By my calculations that gives us 6 defensive positions to be adequately filled by 22(dyson was one) draft picks. Obviously we have not drafted well have we? Of those 22 picks half are not even on the team. Duds like echols-beckham-boiman-gardner-schobel . In 2 drafts over 3 years we went almost excluesively defense. The 2002 and 2004 drafts were packed with 15 picks alone 11 of them in rds 1-4! Of those 11 higher picks how many are solid starters now?

    Another side note that pertains to the other side of the ball is the fact that floyd reese didn't draft a single QB for 10 years! 1996-2005!

    Reese-fisher-schwartz have ALL done a sub par job the last 5 seasons.
  10. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    Titans fearsome foursome..

    Of the 23 draft picks mentioned 8 were defensive lineman and 6 of them were drafted in rds 1-4. What did we get for all that?

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