Looks Like Young Might Ride The Short Bus

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by ChitownTitan, Feb 25, 2006.

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  1. PragIdealist

    PragIdealist Guest

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0761912304/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-7327760-6802552#reader-link

    http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/95/950816Arc5120.html

    "Standardized tests can not accurately measure intellectual merit because racial and gender stereotypes interfere with the intellectual functioning ofthose taking the tests, according to Stanford psychology Professor Claude Steele. "

    http://www.theafrican.com/Magazine/IQ.htm

    http://www.liberalartsandcrafts.net/contentcatalog/social/bias.shtml
    "Cultural bias has long been a problem for test designers. The kinds of biases found in schools, including standardized tests, vary from language differences to exposure to certain historical truths."

    http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar98/dial.html
    "In 1972, Robert Williams, an African-American psychologist, developed the Black Intelligence Test of Cultural Homogeneity to demonstrate that testing of information indigenous to one’s culture can result in higher IQ scores for those with a different cultural background from the mainstream. "

    http://www.nasponline.org/publications/cq312beyondg.html
    "Yes, certain minority groups score consistently lower on intelligence tests than European-Americans, but the cause, in our opinion, has to do with the concept of fairness. Most intelligence tests measure crystallized abilities, those abilities acquired through formal and informal experiences and education. By definition, these abilities are inseparable from prior learning or achievement, so they cannot be true measures of innate ability. Those who have enriched backgrounds and educational experiences typically score better on crystallized measures than those who come from impoverished or varied backgrounds. Does this mean the former children are smarter? We think not.

    Those who use group differences to draw conclusions about racial group intelligence tend to ignore within-group variability and often collapse different abilities into a global IQ score for subsequent group comparisons (Suzuki & Valencia, 1997). For instance, we typically use language to measure crystallized abilities, so anyone whose primary language is not English, or those who use colloquial or nonstandard forms of English, will be less likely to do well on crystallized tasks or any other tasks requiring verbal facility. Intelligence test scores are intimately related to academic achievement in a reciprocal fashion (Ceci & Williams, 1997). If one has a good education and enriched environment, one will probably score better on intelligence tests. However, if one has a limited experience and education, one will not score as well. For these reasons, intelligence tests can be unfair for children of color or cultural difference, but the unfairness is not statistical, it's the result of the clinician's error in interpreting a low crystallized score as being the result of low intelligence. Ever since Binet and Simon developed the first "true" intelligence test, our intelligence tests have been unfair to some groups, individual people of cultural or linguistic difference from the overall normative population."
     
  2. Soxcat

    Soxcat Pro Bowler

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    Some of that is plain stupid IMO. The Titans are not going to educate Vince Young or any other player nor are they going have their coaches start speaking different languages or colloquial or nonstandard forms of English. If Vince Young cannot get right a simple math question or know the difference between a 4 sided object and a 5 sided object then just maybe he or another player with a low score isn't going to make it in the NFL. Trying to use cultural differences when 70% of the men taking the test are black if truly ridiculous. Remember, this whole thing started with the report Young got a 6 on this test. A 16 is a lot different than a 6. A 16 can play QB, a 6 is lucky to play in the defensive line and no way could play QB no matter how you twist the cultural or linguistic, colloquial or nonstandard or whatever. A 6 is a crystallized moron who should not have been in college to begin with. Oh, did we forget to mention that these guys taking this test are guys who went to college? Isn't that one of the big findings? " If one has a good education and enriched environment, one will probably score better on intelligence tests." Oops, there goes the theory. These guys are not bums taken off the street. These are young men who have been to 3 or 4 or more years of college.
     
  3. Jwill1919

    Jwill1919 Coach

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    Excellent point Sox, if this dude hasn't enriched his empty head through 3 years of college, what kind of progress should we expect him to make in the NFL. I know a wonderlic has nothing to do with being a football player, but you have to have a brain to play QB in the NFL, it's not just all physical tools. It's about decision making, he's obviously not the best decision maker upon choosing his representation, this is a clear example. What other bad decisions will come out of this?
     
  4. VolnTitan

    VolnTitan Starter

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    The person he chose to represent him is new, yes, but he is a respected lawyer in Houston who has started a Sports Agent firm. Vince Young isn't his only client this year.

    As far as smarts to play football, teams will bring him in and run him thru drills watching film and working out plays. THAT will tell them what they need to know, not the wonderlic.
     
  5. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    I hope someone calls in to the Reese show this Friday and asks him if the Titans have a test or how they measure/evaluate football smarts. I would think Young will be put in a room with game film going and having coaches asking him what his reads are, etc.

    Everyone from Reese on down will be out of the game if they draft Young and he's a flop. No way do the Titans draft Young without feelings reasonably certain he can fun an NFL offense.
     
  6. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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  7. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Prag...

    I don't care what some stanford psychologist says about tests in general. Anyone can see that the questions on the wonderlic have no cultual basis. You link articles that are frankly stupid and have no relevance to this discussion. All the people who take this test are healthy young males. All have adequate nutrition. All have high school diplomas and some college.

    I especially like the correlation between scores on IQ tests and economic status. Well duh. Economic staus and intelligence correlate. Really? No s**t sherlock smarter people make more money in a free market society than less smart people.

    Once again you can't see the forest through the trees. It's the wonderlic we are talking about. It's a test for aspiring nfl players.

    How does your nauseating articles explain why asians do well on these tests? Why do jewish people score as good or better than white gentiles?

    Maybe acedemics in the psychology and social science community should stop formulating these racist tests. It's not some klansman in alabama who developed the stanford-binet test. Why can't they in their incredible superior wisdom come up with a non racist test?
     
  8. PragIdealist

    PragIdealist Guest

     
  9. VolnTitan

    VolnTitan Starter

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    The Wonderlic is not a test for NFL players. The Wonderlic is a standardized test that is used in all facets of the business world.

    Someone give bamaboy his meds....
     
  10. PragIdealist

    PragIdealist Guest


    First a correlation depicts a relationship- but not a causal one. Would you say Jessica Simpson is smarter than Phd at APSU? Greater wealth means greater opportunity for enrichment. So kids in poverty with equal intelligence to more affluent individuals are going to score worse on iq tests because they are less prepared for the tests themselves.

    I personally dont believe that the blue-collar worker is less intelligent than the lawyer and that is why he is where he is. Furthermore, intelligence studies dont support that. Thats one reason why you see generational development in education and wealth. For example my wife is a first year college graduate- her mother was one of the few that finished high school, her grandmother didnt finish the 4rth grade. My dad was one of the only in his family to get a college education, his dad worked in factory- now I finished a graduate degree. We didnt get more intelligent each generation- but were each in a better position take advantage of that intelligence.

    You say you dont care about what a standford psychologist says about tests. You prefer to go off your own arguements than listen to an expert that spends his life studying the subject. And you called me arrogant?

    Actually the articles to explain why particular groups score better on those tests. Mostly due to environmental factors- cultural & family norms etc.

    The whole point of all this is say you cant view those scores without context. I thought we agreed on that earlier. I'm just providing context. A 16 is not just a 16. Its relevance is depicted by its context.
     
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