I'm officially on the Jake Locker bandwagon.

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by HeadOnASwivel, Apr 27, 2011.

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  1. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler


    A top prospect will very rarely make a very poor throw given no pressure and a big throwing lane. They will also very rarely throw into double coverage with such a clear vision of the coverage unless down by a lot with little time left.

    Locker did that WAY too much. It is a red flag because it goes to poor judgement. But a lot of prospects need improvement in judgement, but most don't need to be coached up on NOT throwing into double coverage.

    LOL, my post got cutoff or something. Didn't notice it 'til your response.

    Many QB's throw well on the run because it usually forces a defender to leave someone open in order to stop the QB from running. It also increases the length of time defenders have to cover someone which helps the offense a LOT! Locker's system also puts several players in a bind in run/pass responsibility and containment so he frequently had guys open.

    But yes, he has thrown a lot on the run in his career so he is used to it. However, he will need to become a winning QB from the pocket....which is where his accuracy issues arise. his form on the run is very good but he has several issues when standing in the pocket.

    So to answer your question, being an accurate passer on the move doesn't mean you're an accurate passer in the pocket or become one.

  2. 24

    24 Starter

    Like I said above, he hasn't learned to control ball speed. Everything is thrown with full power. In other words, he trusts his arm too much. He throws the ball where the WR is, not where he'll be. At least, that's how I feel on the crossing routes.
  3. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

    Gut and 24
    Without support all our claims are empty.
    Saying player X does something way too much is pretty much an empty to claim without some form of support.
    Gut I guarntee I can show every top prospects throwing into double coverage.

    I will reply to both of your post in detail later.
    So forgive the short response.
  4. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

    I guess we'll disagree.

    I didn't see Locker throwing into double coverage anymore then any of the other top prospects.
    One of the reason Jake is a good prospect is despite his surrounding talent his production was on the same tier as Gabbert.

    -On a side note Locker rarely had no pressure and a big throwing lane especially in comparison to the other top prospects who were all remarkably well protected.

    I think you're describing 2 different aspects of throwing on the run:
    (a) the schemeatic ascpect
    (b) the physical act of throwing on the run.

    The physical act of throwing on the run is more difficult then throwing when stationary.

    That's the point I was making when I asked how can someone who is (physically) accurate throwing on the run be consider inaccurate?

    The schematic advantage is push because although the bootleg/swap action can create open receivers there is usually a defender bearing down on the QB to add the already increased physically difficulty of having to throw on the move.

    I think most would agree that throwing accurately on the move is more difficult then throwing accurately from within the pocket.

    Point being is that if he can throw accurately on the run then he can throw accurately.
    The question then becomes does the accuracy disappear from the pocket and if so why?

    My answer that I've seen on tape is the accuracy i.e. ball placement/ball location is there.
    Jake isn't any less accurate then Gabbert, or Newton.

    My question to you is this and it might be a sublime distinction and its one that you cannot make unless you watch a lot of Locker games/cut-ups but...

    How many of Locker's 'inaccurate' throws are legitimately 'inaccurate' considering the situation?
    How many of his 'inaccurate' throws were due to pass protection?

    I think the Titans and many other teams (Redskins) found their answer to this question and don't consider Jake to be inaccurate.

    I think if you trust your Munchak and Palmer then you should consider that Jake Locker isn't some randomly inaccurate QB. That Jake Locker's perceived inaccuracy is a consequent of the 0-12 talent around him.

    There are some guys like Dave Razzano and Jim Miller who think Locker is more accurate then both Newton and Gabbert.

    Why not? If you're accurate in a situation where accuracy is more difficult how can you then be 'inaccurate'.

    At the very least it makes the label of 'inaccurate' not the appropriate label.
    Which is probably why the sharp draft 'experts' like Mayock never refered to Locker as inaccurate rather he said:
  5. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

    I feel like I'm harping but to me there's a big difference between a QB that misses from time to time like any QB does (even pro QBs) then a QB that has an 'issue' with something.

    You keep referencing the all-star challenge and although I think it has next to no evaluation value he did in fact finish ahead of Andy Dalton in the competition and Dalton is largely considered a very accurate QB.

    I disagree with this as well.
    If your saying he's off with ball speed at times I would agree but I don't think he does it to greater extent then the other prospects.
    Especially in regards to throwing to spot vs leading a receiver.

    And for me the comparison to other QBs is the key.
    In a vacuum one can develop any opinion about a given prospect.
    But, when you look at games in comparison to other QBs, I find that QBs are more similar then they are dissimilar if most of the mistakes 1 QB makes are the same mistakes other QBs make.

    I think if you're talking about an 'issue' or a 'negative' then whatever the issue has to exsist to greater extent in Locker then it does in the other prospects and I don't think that's the case and that is the reason why he's one of the top prospects.

    Its not by accident that he went No.8.
  6. bobbyt77

    bobbyt77 New Titans fan/locker fan

    I really don'y know what people are saying about %'s if you ever watch him play at UW he on 1 play he would have to take on a DL man the next a SS or LB then asked to throw a touch pass he had run for his life I think with a little time and a little coaching he will a great QB for you guys I know we will miss watching him every weekend I hope we will get some games. you guys are going to love this kid he's a great person you'll all see soon. Watch E-60 on ESPN if you get a chance it's real good show it shows what kind of person he really is
  7. EdRomeo

    EdRomeo Football Fan

    I promise that once I can post video I'll be able to post some game cut-ups that we can discuss where I can show you guys some of the points I'm trying to make.

    Hopefully, you guys are down to break down some film?
  8. Chapparal97

    Chapparal97 Grumpy Old Fart

    Can we just start the season already? Some of you guys are just too freekin' anal.
  9. seafandawghawk

    seafandawghawk Starter

    Yeah the Films Will Show The Story

    A new titan fan from Seattle.

    Just my two cents, but having watched all of Jake Locker's games at UW, personally I would not be concerned with his throwing accuracy even in the pocket. Him simply missing on open throws never stood out to me as a big problem, especially through his final two seasons. In fact, if you watch a lot of video, he makes plenty of accurate throws to receivers who have defenders draped all over them. Wide open receivers were more a luxury than a norm during his career at UW.

    My strong sense of what Locker really needs is to learn a stable offensive system, learn to read defenses from that, and learn to go through his progressions efficiently on that basis. As he masters these qualities his 'accuracy issues in the pocket' will disappear as a meaningful issue.

    He came from a Wing-T offense in high school; and then during his first three years (2 + redshirt) at UW, they ran a weird hybrid of a spread offense under two different offensive coordinators. Then Steve Sarkisian implemented a pro-style offense during Locker's junior and senior seasons with his own new set of assistants.

    Not to make excuses for Jake, but the fact is that UW's O-line was overmatched probably in 75% of their games per season-- his receiving corp was mediocre at best-- and during his senior year, they lost their only receiving threat at tight end before the season started (which, according to Sarkisian, made him throw out half of UW's playbook). Essentially he had two years to develop the mental aspects of reading defenses and going through progressions in a context that prioritized a pocket passing game but supported it pretty poorly. And in the case of UW, their defenses were even worse, among the worst in the nation statistically, which effected playcalling through the course of games much more often than not.

    All to say, it's not his arm that's the 'issue' as I can see (or even his mechanics, which seem fine when he's settled and not stressing): it's the mental part of recognizing defensive sets, settling in a pocket, and efficiently going through progressions. In hearing him talk he understands how important all of that is. And I believe that if the Titans really work with him on those things, then you guys won't be having any more of these 'accuracy issue' conversations. He may never become quite as pinpoint as a Brady; but he'll be plenty accurate enough, and will extend or make plays with his mobility that will give you a QB that can take you into January and February.
  10. 24

    24 Starter

    I gave my reason in another thread. When he's running, he throws over the top, to compensate for arm strength. IMO, that allows him to throw with more release points, which leads to more accuracy. When he's in the pocket, he has a 3/4 release (probably a product of his baseball upbringing), which doesn't really allow for controlled passes. Like I said before, he needs to work on his release, which will inevitably allow him to control the ball more.

    Plus, one could always argue the theory of relativity. If Locker is running to his right at the same speed as his WR, then essentially he's throwing to a stationary target. In some ways that is easier. There's also the fact that throwing lanes, windows are more open on the run.
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