Feelin' a draft? Rnds 1-3

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Gut, Apr 30, 2009.

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  1. Soxcat

    Soxcat Pro Bowler

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    My problem with Gut's take is simply this. He basically said the Titans FO, MR, Fisher and their scouts are a bunch of idiots. Sure there was plenty of analysis but you would think these guys were basically bench warmers in college with physical disabilities and we reached on every single one of them. Basically what it amounts to is way over analyzing.

    Also, once these guys are Titans I prefer to show some confidence in the FO, MR, Fisher and the scouts and focus on the positive side.

    Gut would have said Finnegan was a reach, way too small, not very physical, will have to play a different position (played S in college) didn't have good ball skills, can't walk and chew gum at the same time, needs to become an NFL player (daaa) and has an attitude problem. He would say the odds of Finnegan making the roster were about the same as a retarded monkey speaking 6 languages.
     
  2. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Space Invaders Champion

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    I just re-read every word of Gut's original post and I fail to see how you came to that conclusion.

    It's just his opinion on the players, and what they need to do to be successful in the NFL.

    "Britt has Plaxico potential, Sen'Derrick Marks could be a top 20-30 DT, Cook could be a Hall of Famer, Mouton needs to mimic Finnegan so he can be a cloned Finnegan." That's more or less Guts words and best case optimistic outlook on the players.

    Nowhere did it make me think he was calling them benchwarmers.


    Being regular posters on a football fan forum means we are all a little fanatical.

    You may not enjoy fan analysis of players, but I do. As long as its discussion and debate and not smack (well at least not in this subforum) or disrespectful comments.

    To me it's entertainment to evaluate the decisions the Titans make in the offseason. I root for them and pay to support them.

    Hearing other's opinions are interesting to me as well.

    That's certainly your right and your choice.

    That's obviously a huge exaggeration. But I'm sure 99% of NFL fans,scouts,GMs,coaches,owners wouldn't have predicted Finnegan to become a probowler in 3 seasons.

    But I doubt anyone called him a reach. It's hard to be a reach when you are drafted in the 7th round.
     
  3. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Space Invaders Champion

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    Kenny Britt- It's hard to say anything original after reading other's opinions and thoughts. I've harped about us improving our WR core probably more than anyone. So I'm glad we at least committed to doing so, using a first rounder on a WR (and bringing in Nate Washington), but I'm skeptical about Britt. Yet I do remain optimistic as well.

    I looked at his stats, particularly game by game. I wanted to see the opponents he faced and his stats verse good teams. Really Rutgers hasn't faced really great teams in the last 2 seasons. I notice in 2007, the second half of the season Britt sort of disappears for 4 of the final 6 games (well 3 really, but if you take away a 53 yard touchdown against Pittsburg, that would be another low stat game). He had monster outings against some bad teams that season, amazing thing is they were all on the road! IN 2008, Rutgers struggled early in the season, but Britt didn't except in the TD category. He was more consistent and dominant throughout the season. And he had good bowl games in both years! It's a real positive sign to see this consistency.

    My concern would be that it was against lesser opponents, and will that hold up against NFL defenses? I'm optimistic, but not as much as I was about Desean Jackson last offseason. Britt has the resume and the right size to be great. He is also the right type of receiver vs. Nate Washington. We have a burner and a strong physical type. I think the TO/Plaxico analogy is a good one for most upside potential.


    Sen'derrick Marks- I have a degree from both UT and Auburn, so I pay most attention to both their college programs the most. Great size. I have a lot of faith in Washburn so I think Marks will be coached up. Played through pain, so he shows good toughness which is very important for a D-lineman. At the same time injury concerns aren't good. I haven't been to an Auburn game recently, but a good friend goes to a few a year, and told me that you could tell Sen'derrick helped elevate the defense at times. He really commented about him playing through pain. Also that he was a fan favorite.

    According to most draft sites, Marks might've been considered a reach. Even so, this was another area of need I wanted the Titans to address. Considering Marks size, and Washburn's track record, I'm pretty damn happy with this selection.


    Jared Cook- He's an amazing receiver and word is not so much as a blocker. I think do think he's a good player, and I wonder if we don't play him in the slot at WR some. Considering he played in the SEC, we don't have to be concerned with the talent he played against. Or do we? Last season he disappeared in the final 4 games of the season (minus a 66 yard TD reception against Arkansas). It might be a little concerning that a fifth of his receiving yards last season came against Vanderbilt.

    The Titans commit to having a great 2TE set. I'm not happy AT ALL about giving up a 2nd in 2010 to trade to this spot. I'm also a little confused about how the Titans plan on handling the TEs on the roster. Most agree that Scaife is just outside the top 10 TEs in the league. So for Jared Cook to be worth giving up a 2nd next year, does he need to be a long term top5 TE in the league? I almost say that's the bar. Maybe the Titans just think Scaife is going to be way to inflexible with his salary, which made targeting a TE this important. Or maybe they just do really believe J.Cook is that much better. And its not like Crumpler was terrible last season. It's gonna be interesting to see how this plays out. As you know Tide, I'm not a believer in Craig Stevens. Stevens was a blocker in a weak defensive conference, and hasn't shown the receiving potential, that I guess everyone keeps saying he has... potential... since he's never delivered.

    My best guess, the Titans are concerned about the free agents coming up, and they aren't going to pony up for Scaife or Crumpler returning.

    Optimistically, Cook becomes our Bo Scaife for the future, and hopefully is much better in the receiving department. Everyone hypes his speed, so I'm excited to see what he offers in that department. With our offense, a speedy TE could create nice mismatches.


    Ryan Mouton- I don't know about this guy. If we were so sure Cook was going a few spots ahead of this pick, I think we should've used this pick and another late pick from the 2009 draft to move up and draft Cook.

    This is an area of need, so I'm glad to see us try to address it. Not many ints in his career in a pass happy conference. Mouton is also really small. I have a hard time believing he is the answer to replace Harper next offseason. Also Mouton only played 2 years at Hawaii? That's not great either.

    He is fast, I'll give him that. Hopefully he'll be a surprise to me and a solid corner. Right now I just see him as a backup and special teams player. Again, I don't like giving up our 2nd next year for another TE... when we could've used this selection to do that, and not messed with our next year's picks.


    Gerald McRath- I just have to mention him and that I was extremely happy we drafted him. Did great at the combine, fast. Consistently makes tackles on a game to game basis. Doesn't have an INT since his freshmen year, and doesn't have a lot of sacks, but has some. So maybe doesn't make the impact plays, but makes the solid plays that someone has to make. I'm very excited to have him for depth and for potential in the future at the LB position.


    (damn, this post was a freaking novel)
     
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  4. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Well...

    I don't think we HAD to take any position in the top 2 rnds so it's not like we HAD to take a DT in rnd 2.

    First, I wouldnt have taken Britt in rnd 1 so my picks would have unfolded differently. But as for just who was available or potentially?

    In rnd 2, there were 6 players I liked so I would have attempted to trade up to the #10 spot in rnd 2...as the board fell, I would have ended up with Everette Brown. If you think that's too far to move, I wouldn't have traded a late pick to hop over the Colts pick to get Sean Smith since I would expect the Colts to grab him (though they ended up trading the pick). Staying where we were I would have looked at Shonne Greene, Jared Cook, Jarron Gilbert. I think all 3 players are better prospects than Marks.

    Instead of Mouton? I won't go through the numerous players I would have preferred to aquire via moving up depending on what we did prior to Mouton's pick (who and where did we take people in the draft so far). As noted, I potentially would have used this pick to move up to get an Everette Brown or Alphonzo Smith or whatever higher in rnd 2. But assuming we stayed still, I would have looked at Mike Thomas/Jarrett Dillard at WR, Lawrence Sidbury at DE, Marcus Freeman at OLB, Travis Beckum/Cornelius Ingram at TE (if we hadn't grabbed Cook) or Sammie Lee Hill. I think we got stuck behind the 8 ball with the CB's...virtually all of the good-solid guys were already gone and they knew they needed 1. While Hill I had as a 3rd/4th rnd player, I would have rather aquired him than Mouton even though CB was a need (which I would have addressed earlier or after the draft. Actually, despite an obvious red flag on Mickens knee dropping him all the way to the bottom of the draft, I would have still grabbed him since we can afford to have him rehab for a lot of the year and work his way back slowyly...assuming his knee can get better and it's not a career threatening injury.

    Again, don't mention why would we take Thomas or Dillard if we had Britt in rnd 1 and Gage/Wash already...I wouldn't have drafted the same way, but here are players I would have drafted instead of the ones you asked about.

    Gut
     
  5. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Well, well, well...

    Ya mean NOT busted!!! Thanks for trying though...

    In case you hadn't noticed...it say Player did not play OR accumulate any stats. I said he didn't aquire any stats, didn't I? Yes I did.

    But since you don't believe me, here's your proof...and so you don't miss him, I made is name bold.

    Participation Report


    Participation Report (Final)
    2008 Auburn Football
    #13 Georgia vs Auburn (Nov 15, 2008 at Auburn, AL)


    Georgia Auburn

    POS ## OFFENSE POS ## OFFENSE
    SE 1 M. Massaquoi RB 27 Mario Fannin
    LT 60 Clint Boling TE 5 Tommy Trott
    LG 71 Cordy Glenn RB 9 Tristan Davis
    C 61 Ben Jones LT 73 Lee Ziemba
    RG 63 Chris Davis RT 50 Ryan Pugh
    RT 78 Josh Davis QB 18 Kodi Burns
    TE 86 Tripp Chandler C 68 Jason Bosley
    QB 7 M. Stafford RG 66 Mike Berry
    FB 49 Shaun Chapas LG 71 Tyronne Green
    TB 24 Knowshon Moreno WR 84 Montez Billings
    FL 8 A.J. Green WR 80 R. Smith

    POS ## DEFENSE POS ## DEFENSE
    DE 99 Jarius Wynn FS 4 Zac Etheridge
    DT 90 Corvey Irvin RCB 6 Walter McFadden
    DT 56 Geno Atkins LCB 8 Jerraud Powers
    DE 41 Rod Battle LB 17 Josh Bynes
    SLB 51 Akeem Dent SS 26 Mike McNeil
    MLB 33 Dannell Ellerbe LB 46 Craig Stevens
    WLB 35 Rennie Curran DE 49 Michael Goggans
    WCB 23 Prince Miller DE 52 Antonio Coleman
    SS 5 CJ Byrd LB 55 Merrill Johnson
    FS 9 Reshad Jones DT 94 S. Marks
    SCB 2 Asher Allen NG 99 Tez Doolittle

    I was unaware that stating a fact is bashing.

    Even you think a 7.80 is SLOW...and it is. And he did that BEFORE he re-injured his hammy BTW.

    As PROVED above...it was a bad game he PLAYED in...but played so poorly, he didn't even have a single assist or help the D play well against the run - his forte!

    Anything else on Mr. Marks and my facts you'd like to critique?

    Thanks for playing...

    Gut
     
  6. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Huh?

    At least you're funny...though you'd be hard pressed to find a single shred of evidence to back up the above paragraph. I'm not sure how thinking a certain player is a reach is the same as calling anyone an idiot. Quite the contrary. I listened to the scouts pre-draft talk from the Titans views and thought they had a clear grasp of the players. Just because I dsiagree with some of the players they chose and WHERE they chose them is a difference of opinion. The only place where you'll find me highly critical was when it came to Da Schwartz and his penchant for calling the wrong D or putting players in a position to fail for his first several years. The FACT that I thought we should have given Finny a shot at FS when LT was there PROVES I didn't think Finny was a benchwarmer though it appears Schwartz did.

    Me2. That's why I gave a balanced analysis. The upside, the downside and what the players needed to do.

    What do you mean would have said...I was here when Finny was drafted...so find me a post of me saying he was a waste. I was here before this board was a board so no need to make stuff up...go find the facts! And why would I say Finny doesn't have ball skills or an attitude problem? Finny is EXACTLY the kind of player I like to take in the end of the draft...he's a little small but has GREAT athletic ability...like 4.3 speed and a 44inch vertical. And an attitude 'problem' is a good thing with CB's and OG's!!!

    Gut
     
  7. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Why make a big issue for the georgia game gut? Marks didn't generate any stats for the Tennessee martin game the week before. Are you suggesting he was in on 100 plays and just was dominated in that game also? Dominated by a tn martin guard?

    When a player does nothing in 2 straight games that tells me he did not play much at all. Maybe started and tested the ankle and then came out after one series.

    He is on the participation list for that game also.
    http://auburntigers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2008-2009/au05.html

    Neither of us knows exactly how many plays marks was in on but it seems rather obvious to anyone who is not a marks' basher that he hardly played in both those games.

    My guess is that they started him to keep his starting streak alive and he did little else.

    Or as you claim he played but performed like a gutless coward and is a horrible football player.
     
  8. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Manners...

    This first thing that should have been said in your followup post was sorry for saying you lied. It's one thing to not have your facts straight, but it's another for it to be proven you didn't have the right facts and then not apologizing for calling the poster - me - a liar.

    But on to your post...

    I pointed out the Georgia game because it was against one of the best runners in college and Marks' forte is stopping the run. Since I was showing how he can play big in some games (LSU) and disappear in others (Georgia). Since I didn't make any statment about the Tnn-Martin game I'll leave that up to your vivid imagination.

    Since this comment is pure speculation on your part, it needs no further comment.

    You're funny...first you say since we don't know how many plays he was in for...

    ...and then you tell me he hardly played. All while slighting me. Very nice!

    Guess all you like...doesn't give a shred of truth to the reality.

    When did I claim this? Please quote me.

    Thanks,
    Gut
     
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  9. Soxcat

    Soxcat Pro Bowler

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    You basically love to hear yourself talk which is fine.

    First of all saying a team picked a player a whole round too soon is calling them idiots anyway you look at it.

    Obviously I was being overly dramatic about my comments on Finnegan and others. The point is anyone can dissect any player and find a nice list of reasons they won't make it or things they need to improve. It really proves nothing. What matters is how it all works out. Now that these guys are Titans I'm ready to wait and see what happens.

    To make my point making comments about how YOU would have traded up into the 2nd round and doo doo like that is a non issue. We have no idea what the Titans might have tried to do or what was offered to them. We, meaning us non professional guys who don't do this for a living are basically clueless to what went on or what teams, GMs and scouts were thinking except for the outcome. Heck, even the guys who get paid on ESPN and the NFL network are babbling idiots 99% of the time.
     
  10. Soxcat

    Soxcat Pro Bowler

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    Just so posters don't think I am picking on Gut or something let me point out Gut's long winded analysis of the Chris Johnson pick last year. This should make my point.

    Not bad stuff but not much substance either. Until guys play at the NFL level it is really hard to judge. Keep in mind Johnson doesn't have good change of direction, his speed is over rated (the guys he was dominating maybe had one guy on the defense wtih 4.4 speed) and he bounces it outside instead of running between the tackles.

    Well, in reality Johnson does BURN guys at the NFL level (the experts were very wrong on that one), actually prefers to run between the tackles (I thought his reluctance to go outside a few times cost him bigger gains) and his change of direction was just fine. In fact, Johnson failed in the area all these "experts" thought he would have to excel to be a good player; as a pass catcher who can run the bubble screens and such. Gut in other posts thought we should have waited until the 2nd round to get Johnson (reach?, sound familiar).

    Actually I'm very happy we got Johnson where we did and am very happy Gut wasn't the one making the decisions on draft day.
     
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