Does Munch Have The Guts To Fire an Old Friend? (OL)

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by The Hammer, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. The Hammer

    The Hammer Problematic AF

    Brunch, that is what we can call them. When you put "Bruce" and "Munch" together :troll:
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    JCBRAVE 2017 Pick'em Champion Tip Jar Donor

    Great, 2 of the more dominating men in football have just been turned into "Brunch"

    Thank you Canada for that :shakehead:
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  3. SawdustMan

    SawdustMan The Reigning, Defending, Undisputed Beav Champion

    I don't think anyone is saying it's ALL on Bruce, or that firing him magically solves our offensive woes. It's just that eventually, at some point, there has to be accountability. This is his 3rd year here and this is the 3rd time his OL has sucked major balls. Simple as that.

    Sure, firing him right now in the middle of the season probably doesn't help us any. But if the OL keeps performing like this for the rest of the year and Munchak miraculously manages to keep his job, there is absolutely zero reason for Bruce Matthews to be coaching the OL next year.
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  4. MaxFischer

    MaxFischer Rookie

    Correlation doesn't mean causation. Bruce Matthews coaching an underwhelming offensive line (decent at pass blocking, poor at run blocking) doesn't mean he's the source of the problem. Or that he is or is not contributing to the problem. The problem has been the OL talent.

    Our OL issues have been a long time coming. Just look at the draft history. From 2008 to 2012, we drafted two offensive lineman at mid- to low-parts of the draft- a 2011 6th round waste on T Byron Stingily, and a 4th rounder on non-starter Troy Kropog in 2009 . Then the 2012 season happens, and we draft 2 OLs and pick up another in free agency. Why? Because our personnel sucked. They plugged the hole too late.

    A coach can only develop and teach so much - either these guys have it or they don't. It's easy to blame a position coach, but the majority of the blame lies on the front office for neglecting the offensive line with aging players and poor talent.
  5. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

    Ummm we've spent and drafted to fix for this year. Looks to me like the talent is here. Too late? Uhhh nah. And to suggest the coaches have little input in personnel is disingenuous.

    He'll I don't even care to say the OL woes ARE multifactorial but what sets me in motion is the lack of accountability folks here and in the organization are ok with.

    The simple fact is the unit Bruce Matthews is responsible for coaching is underperforming. Blame and fault aren't the issue. Who is Responsible is the issue. One of the most reassuring things a person can do to instill faith to others that a problem is a temporary thing is for them is to acknowledge their responsibility in the situation. There has been so much circular logic and interest in assigning blame/fault to others it gives the appearance that Matthews doesn't have to be accountable. Which is preposterous when fans are paying for the product.
  6. ImATitan

    ImATitan Pro Bowler

    I didn't blame Matthews much in previous years, but the fact that this group is struggling right now concerns me an awful lot on Matthews coaching.

    I doubt Munchak fires him but if this keeps up, he won't have too -- because Munchak and his staff will be gone at season's end (hopefully Williams stays).

    But I don't want it to come to that. I want Locker to come back and for us to be the playoff team that we rightfully are, because this year's team is a pretty good one.
  7. UrbanLegend3

    UrbanLegend3 Pro Bowler

    Titan Jeff is right. As always when things are going wrong people look for a scapegoat. A nice easy target that you can put all your frustrations on and say "if we get rid of that guy, we'll be good again". It gives people hope that things will be better and at the same time gives people someone to hate and boy do we humans love to righteously hate someone. In this case it's Matthews. "Accountability" is just another word for blame. Some people are saying the equivalent of "I'm not sure the bad play is Matthew's fault but he has to go because someone needs to be fired". That makes no sense.Firing people when you're not even sure it's their fault is not only petty but also doesn't help you get out of your situation.

    If you watch tape it is abundantly clear that the line is failing because they are getting physically beat by superior linemen. What I see happening on the line is akin to a corner trying his best and still having a faster receiver blowing right past him. When you see that happen consistently you don't chalk it up to bad coaching you say that guy just got beat. It's a part of football. The great players learn from it an improve.

    I honestly believe that outside of X's and O's position coaching is extremely overrated at the NFL level. Only rookies and the rawest of prospects drastically improve due to coaching. You rarely see a veteran evolve his game due to a new position coach. What is happening to Levitre and Turner is their fault and no one else's. They need to man up and play better, not sure how they will do it but it's clear no one will do it for them.
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  8. Vigsted

    Vigsted Starter


    Couldn't disagree more! Do you guys honestly think players simply wake up in the morning thinking "Hey I'm going to work harder today" or "I don't feel like playing good this year"?

    Each and every year we see players who either drop off or greatly improve when they move to a new team or get a new coach. Good coaching is critical even at the NFL level. Coaching is a hell of a lot more than just telling a guy to down block or cover deep outside.

    I find it especially funny that some people will claim Matthews has no real impact on how our OL is playing, yet is praising Williams for making our defence better and playing with speed and aggression.... Which one is it? Does a coach matter or not?
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  9. Fry

    Fry Welcome to the land of tomorrow!

    Kenny Britt sure as hell did.

  10. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

    That's ridiculous. Blame/fault are a totally different concept than responsibility. You can be held accountable for something when you have done nothing wrong or are not at fault. But that doesn't excuse for the responsibility that has been assigned to you. In Matthews case, HIS unit is underperforming. He IS responsible for their performance.

    Titan Jeff is wrong on that concept in that he has attempted to defray or avoid the issue that Matthews is responsible for the underperforming OL. It amazes me that people want to promote the idea that a position coach is NOT accountable for their unit's performance. Why should the organization pay to have a damn position coach if that person has little influence on the player's or their unit's performance? Preposterous. Ideology such as that breeds complacency.

    Really? Just who is saying that other than the initial thread title? Because the majority of dissenting opinion that I've read, has said that Matthews should be held responsible/accountable for his unit's performance. They've also agreed a mid-season change is unlikely to improve things unless there is a better coaching option.

    And at what point DOES it reflect coaching? Say- maybe THREE years? Because with your theory our 3 year history of a troubled line has to be because our OL player quality is at or near the bottom of the league. Roos? Stewart? Levitre? D. Walker/Stevens? Warmack? All under performers from previous years?- uh no. Turner?- yes he sucks as did Amano. Position coaches have no influence on personnel? Uh no.

    I understand the confusion about responsibility and accountability being different concepts than fault or blame. I understand that suggesting a former hall of fame lineman and lifelong member of the organization is responsible for his underperforming unit appears "distasteful" or "disloyal". I understand that disagreeing with the "grand Kahuna" of the message board is unpopular. But failing to hold position coaches responsible for their unit's performance is a recipe for complacency and mediocrity. And for God's sake- BLAME has nothing to do with it.

    So what IS it that I'm saying? Stop giving Bruce Matthews a pass on accountability and responsibility for the OL's underperformance. The fans and organization should let him know we EXPECT him to get his unit straightened- regardless of blame or fault. That is HIS job. Munchak and Matthews are paid by the organization which in turn is paid directly (and indirectly) by the fans and their interest in the team. There is nothing "disloyal" about expecting better results.
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