Derrick Henry MVP

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Riverman, Dec 3, 2020.

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  1. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

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    You're right, CJ couldn't handle that kind of work load and as pointed out, probably part of the reason EG broke down so quickly.
    CJ didn't break down, he just quit after he got paid.
    We can project all we want about "if he had 400 carries" but he didn't. Still an excellent rookie season, just factually incorrect that it was better than every season EG had.

    CJ2K had a 4 season career, 1 of which was among the greatest seasons a RB ever had, yardage wise.
    For comparison to how this kind of stuff can happen, Matt Stafford is currently part of the rare group with 5K passing, as is Famous Jameis. Point being that even not "great" players can have a "great" season.

    EG was more valuable and better than CJ2K.
    Per your post, if this doesn't change your mind, nothing will, your mind is actually made up and no one can change your mind.
     
  2. GeronimoJackson

    GeronimoJackson Brainwashed by the Left. Now I am free.

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    CJ led the league in carries the next year, and was 6th in carries the following year after that. Eddie was overworked, but CJ definitely got his workload too...

    Even during Eddie's "best" season, he wasn't even a top 5 running back.
     
  3. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

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    Not being a "top 5 RB" has more to do with other RB than EG.
    You're comparing carries against the other RB in the same year, not vs. each other. CJ2K career high 358 good enough for #3 EG. 300+ carry seasons - EG 8, CJ2K 2. 1200+ yards, 5-4 EG. 1K+ - 7-6 EG. 10+ TD 2-2. EG was a work horse to a level CJ2K could never be.

    That said, I assure you, that you will never convince me that CJ2K was better than EG or ever had the team value of EG and I will never convince you otherwise either. It's a subjective argument and I've no issue with your stance (outside being wrong lol).

    Merry Xmas bro. It's nice to have an argument about really good players from this franchise at at least one position. If we start arguing WR, then we're mudslinging about the trash we've historically had.
     
    #173 HurrayTitans!, Dec 26, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
  4. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

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    Sorry @GeronimoJackson I'm a stat guy so I kept digging. Here's some more side by side comparison's between EG/CJ2K

    EG
    96' - 335 1368 8 // #4 in Att, #5 in yds // LL had 353 carries
    97' - 357 1399 6 // #3 in Att, #5 in yds // LL had 375 carries
    98' - 348 1294 5 // #4 in att, #7 in yds // LL had 410 carries
    99' - 320 1304 9 // #6 in att, #6 in yds // LL had 369 carries
    00' - 403 1509 14 // #1 in att, #3 in yds // LL 403 carries
    01' - 315 939 5 // #6 in att, #17 in yds // LL had 356 carries
    02' - 343 1165 12 // #3 in att, #14 in yds // LL had 383 carries
    03' - 312 1031 5 // #12 in att, #16 in yds // LL had 392 carries

    CJ2K
    08' - 251 1208 9 // #12 in att, #8 in yds // LL had 376 carries
    09' - 358 2006 14 // #1 in att, #1 in yds // LL 358 carries
    10' - 316 1364 11 // #6 in att, #4 in yds // LL had 334 carries
    11' - 262 1047 4 // #8 in att, #14 in yds // LL had 343 carries
    12' - 276 1243 6 // #10 in att, #9 in yds // LL had 351 carries
    13' - 279 1077 6 // #6 in att, #11 in yds // LL had 314 carries

    Cj2K career high is 358, more than 40 carries higher than his #2 season which is 4 carries above EG's lowest total as a Titan.
    That 358 would rank #3 against the league 7/8x throughout EG's career, 2x would lead the league.

    EG career low is 312 as a Titan. That would be #5 in 5/6 seasons of CJ2K's career. His carries by year beat the LL of CJ2K's seasons respectively as such, 1, 2, 5, 4, 2, and 7x)
    I point this out because the amount of use between EG to CJ2K is not close and clearly the league also dropped the number of carries on their lead back throughout CJ2K's career (smartly I might add considering the wear and tear of a guy like EG) He had just shy of 1000 more carries in only 33 more games.

    Couple other notes towards EG's HoF worthiness:
    in 8 years as a Titan, never missed a start.
    His 130 consecutive games is #2 for all RB behind only Walter Payton (170)
    He is only 1/2 RB to reach 10K without missing a start (Jim Brown)

    10K no HoF currently: * = not eligible yet
    Frank Gore*
    Adrian Peterson*
    Edgerrin James
    Fred Taylor
    Steven Jackson*
    Corey Dillon
    Leshaun McCoy
    Warrick Dunn
    Ricky Watters
    Jamal Lewis
    Thomas Jones
    Tiki Barber
    Marshawn Lynch*
    Ricky Williams

    I would agree some of those names deserve it more than EG but many all played in the same era as EG explaining what a difficult time it is for RB of his time to get in.
     
    #174 HurrayTitans!, Dec 26, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
    • Informative Informative x 3
  5. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

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    Had a little time (ok, a lot) and have this list from the other teams based on what they did for THAT team, not a career (for example, you won't see a Herschal Walker due to his split stats across both Dal and Min/Phil)

    ARZ - Ottis Anderson/ Stump Mitchell/ Johnny Roeland/ John David Crowe
    ATL - Gerald Riggs/ M. Turner/ William Andrews/ Jamal Anderson (Dunn a close #5)
    Balt - J. Lewis/ Rice/ McGahee/ Lamar Jackson (if RB only Priest Holmes)
    Buf - T. Thomas/ OJ/ Fred Jackson/ Joe Cribbs
    Car - J. Stewart/ D. Williams/ Cam Newton/ D. Foster (McCaffrey if RB only)
    Chi - Payton/ Forte/ Neal Anderson/ Rick Casseres (Gale Sayers w/ a longer career)
    Cin - Dillon/ James Brooks/ Rudi Johnson/ Pete Johnson
    Cle - Jim Brown/ Leroy Kelly/ Mike Pruitt/ Kevin Mack
    Dal - Emmitt/ Dorsett/ Elliott/ Don Perkins
    Den - TD/ Floyd Little/ Sammy Winder/ Otis Armstrong or Mike Anderson (close)
    Det - Barry/ Billy Sims/ Dexter Bussey/ Nick Pietrosante
    GB - Ahman Green/ Jim Taylor/ John Brockington/ Clarke Hinkle or Paul Hornung
    Hou - Arian Foster/ Dominick Williams/ Lamar Miller/ Watson (Alfred blue or Steve Slaton if no QB)
    Ind - Edge/ Faulk/ Dickerson/ Lenny Moore (also a tough Lydell Mitchell)
    Jax - Fragile Fred/ MJD/ James Stewart/ Fournette
    KC - Charles/ Priest Holmes/ Larry Johnson/ Okoye (marcus Allen is #5)
    LV Rai - Allen/ Mark Van Eeghan/ Clem Daniels/ Pete Banaszak
    LAC - Tomlinson/ Paul Lowe/ M. Gordon/ Chuck Muncie (M Butts close)
    LAR - Dickerson/ Faulk/ Steven Jackson/ Gurley
    Mia - Csonka/ Ricky Williams/ Ronnie Brown/ Mercury Morris
    Min - AP/ Robert Smith/ Chuck Foreman/ Bill Brown
    NE - Sam Cunningham/ Jim Nance/ Tony Collins/ Curtis Martin
    NO - Mcallister/ Ingram/ Dalton Hilliard/ Kamara
    NYG - Tiki/ Rodney Hampton/ Joe Morris/ Brandon Jacobs
    NYJ - Freeman McNeil/ Curtis Martin/ Emerson boozer/ Johnny Hector
    Phi - McCoy/ Wilber Montgomery/ Steve Van Buren/ Westbrook
    Pit - Franco Harris/ Bettis/ L Bell/ Willie Parker
    SF - Gore/ Roger Craig/ Joe Perry/ Ken Willard
    Sea - Alexander/ Curt Warner/ Chris Warren/ Lynch
    TB - Alstott/ James Wilder/ Dunn/ Doug Martin
    Ten - Campbell/ EG/ CJ2K/ Henry (derrick fools)
    Wash - John Riggins/ Portis/ Stephen Davis/ Larry Brown
     
  6. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

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    A couple arguments could be made for a better top 4 than Ten but they are definitely among the top:

    Ind, Sea, Phi, KC

    Many of those players go back a long way and it gets difficult to compare eras. I built that list strictly off their production statistics while on that specific team.

    a couple QB's would make the list, partly due to short history.

    Eric Dickerson, Marshall Faulk make 2 teams. Marcus Allen, Warrick Dunn, and Priest Holmes are debatably the #5 guy for a second team.
     
  7. steverife

    steverife Pro Bowler

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    I feel like anybody picking EG over CJ is picking the 99 Titans over then 09 Titans.
     
  8. wrench248

    wrench248 Pro Bowler

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    I know EG was playing through that toe injury, but his 01 season is brutal:

    16 Games (all starts)
    315 attempts
    939 yards
    3.0 ypc (rounded up from 2.98)
    5 TD

    37 rec
    279 yards

    And as his career demonstrates, this is the season EG broke down and he never truly regained his old form. Like I implied earlier in the thread, EG's seasons from 01-04 really hurt his HOF chances as he was a shell of what he once was at that point.

    You can argue his HOF worthiness on both sides of the issue and find ample evidence to support your position. It really comes down to what a particular votes values.

    Eddie was a leader and a warrior who battled injures and did not miss a start while he was a Titan. He carried the load, playing under a coach who didn't start understanding the value of the forward pass and the talent of McNair until 2003. EG was basically the offense for a number of years with an occasional McNair rush. You knew when EG got the ball he wasnt likely to lose yards and he would punish a defense.

    At the same time, while he got to 10K rushing, he only averaged 3.6 yards a carry in his career and only made it over 4.0 ypc in a season twice (96 and 99 at 4.1 both years). His yardage will be attributed to his sheer number of carries throughout his career as a Titan (never getting below 300 in a single season). He has no superbowl ring and primarily played for a team with no national following or recognition as well.
     
    #178 wrench248, Dec 26, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
  9. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

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    The 99' Titans were better than the 09' Titans as a team. So I guess that would make sense.
     
  10. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

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    Agree completely. If the argument is "is he a HoF?"
    In my case (the reason for the stats) is to prove he was better than CJ2K.

    I don't think EG is a HoF (at 1 time I did but 10K isn't what it used to be but will be again very shortly). At least he has some other competition from his era that are probably more deserving and should get in first.
     
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