Call me what you will, but here's the deal...

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Gut, Dec 27, 2009.

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  1. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    After reading through the usual blasts about VY now that he had a bad game, people are trying to make the same argument to get rid of him as they were LAST YEAR about him. In case you were too numb to read the bashes...they are...VY can't throw accurately, read defenses, make plays from the pocket, go through a receiver progression, throw the ball more than 10 yards, can't have a positive TD/turnover ratio, blah blah blah...(see Merrill Hoge if you want more).

    If you don't wish to read all the proof and my arguments...skip down to the SUMMARY. If you do, grab a snack and commence munching!

    First off, VY doesn't win or lose every game. Last I checked this is a team sport. Yes, VY has a lot of control over the offense, but that's less than half the game (since their is a defense and special teams as well). So this is a bad way to judge a QB...but since people are whining about records, let's see if their 'math' holds up!

    VY has a record of 26-13 as a starter = impressive
    VY has a winning record in every season (7-2, 1-0, 10-6, 8-5) = impressive
    VY's QB rating is 85.2...good enough for 17th = OK
    VY's QB rating as a starter this season is 89 (Flacco's is 89.9)= very good
    VY's QB rating as a starter when you add his rushing stats* is 91 = impressive
    (only QB's with a higher QB rating and fewer or same # of starts are Rodgers and Schaub...Flacco is close at 89.9)
    Our Offense under VY this season avg's 28.1 points per game (tied for 5th)
    Our Offense under Collins this seasons avg'd 14 points per game (31st)
    Net difference in points per game (off-def) under Collins = (14-33)= -19
    Net difference in points under VY = (28-21)= +7
    As an individual, VY is getting it done overall...which is backed by our 7-2 record with him at the helm. Yes he had a bad game vs the Chargers, but he's also showed he can lead the team against a high quality opponent and give us a last minute victory throwing the ball from the pocket. He has shown the ability to do everything the critics..led by Hoge...said he couldn't do. And as if it was snowing in hell, even HOGE had to 'drink the koolaid' and give VY props!!!

    As for this concept that VY can't beat good or great teams...judge for yourself. First against our divisional opponents.
    VY's record vs Indy 2/3 = not what you want but not terrible
    VY's record vs Jags 4/2 = impressive
    VY's record vs Houston 5/0 = AWESOME
    VY's record in our division 11/5 = impressive

    VY's record by teams (points given up by the D in the losses)
    Indy=2/3 (27,22,14)
    Houston = 5/0
    Jags = 4/2 (37,28)
    Giants =1/0
    Eagles = 1/0
    Saints = 1/0
    Cards = 1/0
    Miami = 1/0
    Jets = 1/0
    Dallas = 0/1 (45)
    Pats = 0/1 (40)
    Ravens = 0/1 (27)
    Denver = 0/1 (34)
    Cincy = 0/1 (35)
    Tampa Bay = 0/1 (13)
    If you consider an avg D shouldn't give up more than 20 points in a game (16th ranked D this year), only 2 of his 13 losses are games he SHOULD have won. What everyone should see from this is that in most of his losses (8 out of his 13), the D gave up 27-45 points. What should also be taken from this list is that VY hasn't just beaten bad teams, he's beaten both good and bad teams and was unable to overcome big points given up by the D (few QB's can). No one is saying VY is Peyton Manning, but to make the assertion that the team can't win with him as QB after his showing this year is ludicrous. I will say we will never win a Super Bowl with any QB while we have a D ranked in the bottom 5. Not even Dan Marino could overcome that. VY has gone 7-2 with a D giving up a touch over 21 points per game (about 18th). Imagine how we'd do if our D was top 10 like last season...or BETTER! To suggest VY can't beat a powerhouse team is simply false. It's been done (Giants, Eagles, Saints, Cards)...proof is above.

    For a comparison of this point and some perspective, compare him to Tony Romo who has 53 starts (vs VY's 38).

    Romo's QB rating is 97.8 to VY's 85.2...
    Romo's QB rating as a starter with rushing stats* added is 95 to VY's 91
    Romo's record in his division (4/2 vGiants, 3/3 vPhilly, 3/3 vWash)=10/8
    Romo's record vs other strong teams
    San Diego 0/1
    Arizona 1/1
    New England 0/1
    Indy 1/0
    Saints 1/1
    Ravens 0/1
    Steelers 0/1
    Denver 0/1
    Point is...even a very good QB (4 straight years of 90+ qb rating) like Romo doesn't have winning records against good-great teams (Giants, Eagles, San Diego, Pats, Saints, Ravens, Steelers). Again, many of those losses are the result of his defense giving up high 20's or more points. Last I heard, the Cowboys weren't looking to dump Romo to draft a new QB because Romo couldn't beat certain powerhouse teams.

    SUMMARY - VY has proven the critics wrong. He CAN do all the things they said he couldn't - throw accurately, throw the deep ball, read defenses, go through his progressions (not read 1 WR and run), make good decisions, have a positive TD to INT ratio and win us games throwing from the pocket. He can and has beaten powerhouse teams. Only 2 QB's with the same or less experience have a QB rating higher* (Ryan and Flacco aren't either of them). VY's excellent record, qb rating and 'numbers' should only improve with more experience. He has not only gotten over the hump, but hurdled it and gone a few steps beyond that. More importantly, his maturity as a person has turned his career around. His future is bright and it is in Tennessee blue!

    Now if we can just get the defense fixed we can go back to being Super Bowl contenders!!!

    Gut:cool:

    * Adding rushing stats means adding rushes to attempts and completions, rushing yards to passing yards, rushing TD's to passing TD's and fumbles lost to Interceptions for a truer picture of a QB's value.
     
    • High Five High Five x 17
  2. Deuce Wayne

    Deuce Wayne NOW Y'ALL GET THE MESSICH?!

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    Very well done, Gut. I'm back on the VY bandwagon after heavy criticism (hating). He's shown me that he's matured a lot. His play from the pocket is at least 10x's better and now I don't cringe when he drops back to pass- I actually get excited when he airs it out until one of our WRs drop the ball.
     
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  3. TheSureThing

    TheSureThing Straight Cash Homie

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    Great stat
     
  4. USAF_Titans7

    USAF_Titans7 Starter

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  5. Pacman 4 HoF

    Pacman 4 HoF Starter

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    VY beat a bunch of average teams this year and lost to the two good ones.... his 5-15 yard passing game is pretty bad. hes thrown a couple really good deep balls, and hes also thrown some wtf was that deep balls. the majority of his completions are to wide open receivers, or TEs or CJ in the flats. sorry hes not that good. i think hed be better if we ran more tricks and he got out of the pocket more.
     
  6. p_funk

    p_funk Hillbilly Titan

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    Great post and stats. I have to agree that Vince is the QB that will lead us where we need to go.
     
  7. nate42104

    nate42104 Camp Fodder

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    Vince has definitely shown improvement. He isn't completely atrocious and I don't cringe whenever he steps back in the pocket. That's certainly a positive thing.

    Unfortunately for the Titans and us as fans of the team, he does not have the tools capable of beating 3 or 4 playoff caliber teams in a row. After his best performance a couple weeks back I heard the announcer say "Vince just threw for a career high 3 touchdowns in a magnificent performance." The announcer was right...it was a magnificent performance. But, do we want the guy that for the first time in 39 opportunities threw for 3 td's in 1 game leading our team for the next decade?

    And, per Gut's stats Kerry (another terrible QB on our roster) averaged 14 points per game in one of the most embarrassing starts to a season possible in our first 6 games this year. Ironically, that is the SAME points averaged by Vince when he 'led' us to the playoffs. When Kerry had a great defense, he went 13-3, so the way I see it, Vince and Kerry are nearly identical...neither can 'lead' a team, but either one (like most NFL qb's) can put up 13-20 points when our defense hold teams in check.
     
  8. jessestylex

    jessestylex DeadGirlsCantSayNo

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    i dont care if we had Joe Montana , with this Defense you cant win the big games.

    i think this could be the worst defense we have had in 10 years.
     
  9. Eddyc85

    Eddyc85 Go Bucks!

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    I'm much more optimistic about Young than I used to be but I'd still like to see how he does over an entire season and we really can't have any more games like we had Friday, that was not acceptable.
     
  10. Big Time Titan

    Big Time Titan Big Time Titan

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    Great article. Great stats. VY has won me over but he still needs to re-work his deal. Right now, he's good and getting better, but still not worth that cap # just yet.

    And like Gut said, even Hoge had to admit that he was wrong about VY.
     
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