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Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Gut, Apr 9, 2019.
Theres 2, Harry and Brown
I do not understand how Corey Coleman , Laquan Treadwell, and Josh Doctson went in the first, yet these two aren't mocked to go there. They are both safe picks and will be productive. And Deebo Samuel. If he didn't have injury issues, he'd be an awesome prospect.
I was going to go Josh Gordon but I would want the drug addiction to go along with it.
It only takes one team to like a player and boom he’s a forest round pick. A lot of ppl thought Coleman was a 2nd round player but he was shifty and had a lot of yac...but he did t run many routes but someone thought they could turn him into AB. Bad idea. Tread well was at least a top wr before his bad injury so many thought he’d bounce back a couple years later. The exact same arguments gore Doctson being a first round pick are being made gore Harry...he’ll just box them out and beat them with his superior catching ability. Who cares if he can get open!
What do you mean Harry and Brown are safe picks? Do you think they are #1 type wrs? Why Orr why not?
WR is a tough position to evaluate. But these guys aren't. They could absolutely be #1 guys, but at the very least, you're getting productive receivers who have play making ability.
I did not like Doctson at all. He's not comparable to Harry in any way. You have to look at traits, not just the success they have at what they are doing. Herm Edwards, whose philosophy is that WRs grow on trees, was his coach FFS. I doubt they really designed plays to take advantage of his skill set. He's not a straight line speed runner, which seems to be what you are primarily focused on. But he's sudden and explosive for his size , which you are going to see translate to an NFL route tree, a opposed the go routes they primarily ran in college.
You're right, he could fall into the 2nd while teams are infatuated with athletic duds like Metcalf and Brown. But I would take the receiver who actually displays an NFL skillset, which Harry does. His athleticism reminds me a lot of Juju, just bigger and better IMO.
Actually, it's one of the easier positions to evaluate.
Based on what?
What traits are you meaning besides what I've already said? He has the height/size, an alpha dog mentality and can make spectacular catches. What other above average traits does he have?
I'm less concerned with pure speed than I am with guys who consistently get OPEN and CATCH the ball. Harry is great at catching the ball...just not at getting open. Metcalf is better at getting open, but not nearly as good at catching the ball. Easier to refine catching skills with an explosive athlete. Can't teach a good athlete to become great very easily. But either way can be highly successful...but can also bust. Both are projections.
I haven't tracked his route tree in college, but he ran other routes too. What evidence do you have that he is explosive and sudden for his size? These are the two things most people are down on him about (and most likely why he won't run a 3 cone or 20 yd shuttle).
Well, Juju is what you HOPE Harry becomes...but Schuster also wasn't the #1 wr on his team. It's a lot easier when you have AB drawing a lot of coverage, an excellent OL and a Pro Bowl QB throwing the ball. And Pitt has a nice track record of developing wr's for quite a while now. But Schuster had a lot of the same issues coming out of college. He needed to learn to run better routes to get open. He did that...but that's also why he went in round 2. When you have to learn something that important, it doesn't make you a first round draft pick. Could Harry become that good? Yes. Can Marquise Brown be the next Desean Jackson? Yes. Can Metcalf become Calvin Johnson-lite? Yes. But that's their ceiling. Metcalf has the best ceiling, but also the lowest floor. I don't think we want a guy who we don't know if he'll be able to get open or not...at least not in round 1.
many people believe nkeal harry is the best WR in the draft, it's hard for me to disagree with their points. i would be okay with snagging him although its very possible he goes before us if GMs are thinking the same.
15 of the top 20 WRs last year weren't drafted in the first round. It really is not one of the easier positions to evaluate.
As far as being sudden and explosive for his size, this is what I mean:
He returned punts for ASU, and you can see why above.
Look how he breaks the CB's ankles on the route here:
And Metcalf isn't good at separating. He's good at knocking the CB out of the way and running downfield. Harry does the same thing here:
He's as clean a prospect as you can find
It really is. You can see/evaluate every part of playing the position on tape. All aspects are easy to see. What's hard about it?
Secondly, the vast majority of wr's are taken outside of the first round (I'd guess at least 90-95%) so it makes sense that most successful wr's come outside round 1. It's a numbers game! Most likely, the majority of successful wr's (in raw numbers) in this draft will likely come from rounds 2-4.
He doesn't look explosive here. He has a nice jump lateral move and his size and power. We all know that. But that and poor d is how he's making big plays here. On play 1 the cb dives at his feet. On play 2 another poor tackle attempt and no one is left. He's a powerful big wr and really plays like it. But he's not explosive in his moves.
The cb falls down because he grabs his jersey and is looking back at the qb so when he changes direction hes pulled off balance and falls down. He doesn't fall down because he faked him out.
Again, this is really poor db play and the guy just tries to hold him and he powers through him. Metcalf and Harry will destroy anyone who tries that. But you won't see that much in the NFL. And short of Harry knocking a guy over, the difference is Metcalf will blow past the db and be wide open 30yds down the field while Harry will have to make a great contested catch.
Quinnen Williams is about the cleanest prospect I can find. Harry has flaws just like about 10wr's. Who can fix those flaws in the pros and where they go (what opportunities they get) will determine their success. Harry could go mid-first to second round. Doesn't change what he is as a prospect. They either develop or they don't. I think Juju Smith-Schuster is a good comp for him coming out. But what Juju is right now is his ceiling. Doctson is his floor.
Would you take him at #19?
i would take nkeal at 19 and not feel bad about it