With the 30th pick in the '09 NFL Draft...

Well...

None of them were top players nor arguably the most explosive players in college. Think Louis Murphy from Florida this year. He's probably on about the same level as the guys you mentioned...but he's not going in rnd 1. Did any of those guys singlehandedly win the National Championship game?

That is a bad argument.

Additionally, you'd have to admit it's not Harvin's fault they chose to play him so much at RB that he didn't have as many plays as a WR....right? And how can you discount how much damage he does as a combo WR/RB. It's not like WR's who are awesome tearing up a D running an end around aren't helping their teams. Plus, the fact that he averaged a TD every 5 catches or so and a TD every 10 rushes is evident of how effective and explosive he is. Who cares if he's a prototypical WR. If he was a prototypical WR and had that ability, he'd be a top 5 pick.

So we can take a lesser WR who 'fits' the mold or a better player who can help us more.

BTW, if you wanna go by production, then you should want Maclin, Dillard and Nicks over Crabtree since they had more recieving yds per game than him....but somehow I think you don't wanna make that argument...

Gut

 

Huh?

Why would you care if he's a better WR than rb. As long as he's a better player and gives your offense more of an advantage, what difference does it make. He can run the ball or catch it from the slot. Do you really care if he goes in motion, the QB fakes to CJ up the middle and Harvin takes the end around for 20 yds....do you care that our QB didn't throw him the ball? Or that he takes a WR screen and then runs with it like a RB? Or lines up in the backfield with CJ and they both flare out...which one does the D cover and with whom? Do you care that he lined up like a RB but causes the same mismatches either way?

And you just gave yourself the definition of reliable and then argued against your own point (that reliability isn't as important as being good). Thanks for reinforcing my point!

Lastly, there are NO QB's or WR's from Spurrier's reign that had the talent and stats of a Percy Harvin. Put to answer your question, Darrell Jackson didn't have the career expected, but he wasn't a bad WR. And I'd say that Fred Taylor guy was FAR from being a bust.

And one can make the same argument against Maclin or Crabtree that their stats are significantly enhanced by the pass happy system they play in and many times system players will bust. Considering this, you should be singing the praises of Nicks and Britt as the best WR prospects in the draft.

I would disagree...but that's me. I want the most talented players who can do the most dmg.

Gut

 

And...

I like how you avoid applying your argument to Heyward-Bey and that the spread offenses of Maclin and Crabtree have a lot to do with the higher number of receptions they can get.

And Harvin entered college as a RB so it's not unusual they would want to still use him in that capacity since he's obviously awesome at it and also that Tebow's not the best passer in the world. Or how about the fact that when Harvin was out, Tebow had to carry the load rushing for his team. So you wanna say Harvin's not a good WR cuz Florida chose to run him more?

Is Jarrett Dillard a better WR than Michael Crabtree? Is Ramses Barden? Why aren't you advocating for both of these guys over Crabtree?

Gut

 

I agree exactly with everything you have to say about Harvin. Personally I would be ecstatic if we got him. Honestly, crying over how injury prone he is and claiming he will never play is just plain ignorant. Don’t forget he has scored a TD in I think it was the last 14 or 15 games he’s played in. He had at least one TD in every game this season, even after his surgery. I call that “reliable.” Now how is it that someone can contribute that much to team if they are always on the sideline?!? The fact that he is “injury prone” and still delivers like that, just goes to show that he can be considered in “soldier” status.

Plus, it won’t hurt for us to get a WR who is already used to having to catch inaccurate passes.

However, I don’t think you should be so quick as to hate on Heyward-Bey. I watched him play in Maryland and the kid’s got talent. Yea, he doesn’t come with the stats that you would like out of a first round pick, but he has huge potential. He might not be NFL ready by any means, but I think he has the upside to be the best receiver in the daft 3 years from now. It usually takes 3 years for a WR to get comfortable in the NFL anyway.

You want to talk about Mizzou and TTech’s pass happy offenses, well Maryland has a pass “sad” offense. Meaning that they think they can pass, but don’t have a consistent QB so end up running all day. That why they run reverses with DHB b/c that’s they only way they can get the ball in his hands. They can’t even screen it to him properly. He has never had the ability to build chemistry with the MD QB’s. Even last season, Maryland kept switching back and forth. I would say his best year came his red shirt-freshman year when he build up a good relationship with Sam Hollenbach. If you follow the team, you can recall that Hollenbach sucked it up until his senior year when he got DHB.

For a team who likes to run as much as we do, he brings added benefits with his run blocking. For a WR, he is a great blocker and will always give 100% effort. Given his stats, we know he won’t be a diva.

Yes, he could “potentially” end up a bust, but he could also end up being Randy Moss. We passed up on Randy once, I don’t want to do it again, and I would take the risk.

 

I completely agree with you Gut on Harvin... I am a huge Gator fan, and have been since I was a child. To compare Harvin to previous UF players, especially under Spurrier is a huge mistake. Many of Spurrier's receivers were fast guys who accelled in running out routes and fades. Spurrier receivers always struggled against bump and run coverage, which they often see at the NFL level. Harvin was the #1 rated player coming out of high school, and has dominated against top tier competition every year of college. Everyone made a huge deal about Reggie Bush and his yardage per touch... that was against the Pac-10 (which was waaayyy down during the Bush years), Harvin has done better and he did his damage against the SEC, playing his best against the best teams that UF played.

I mentioned this in a previous post... I understand the concern about Harvins injury history, however you have to understand why he was hurt. This article does a fair job:
http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2008/04/11/whats-wrong-with-percy-harvin-this/ The offseason surgery that Harvin had should've cleared this problem up, the high ankle sprain that happened at FSU is just a "football injury". It was a crazy wet field, and there was some question as to if the FSU player tried to hurt Harvin on purpose. In my opinion, his injuries are behind him.

I'll be the first to admit that Harvin was not often used in a traditional WR role at UF, but when he did, he did it well... Go back and look at the games. The guy is simply one of the most explosive players that I've ever seen, especially with the ball in his hands. He has great hands, I've seen him drop two passes that he should have caught in his career at UF, and many more times has caught a pass that he should not have been able to... As previously mentioned, I see Harvin as a bigger Steve Smith with a quicker first step. He will need to work on his route running, but if he can step in right away and provide a similar role to what Desean Jackson did this year for the Eagles... what more could you ask for?

 

Didn't you also NOT want us to draft Chris Johnson last year?

 

How many and what picks would it take to move up the board to pick around #7 or high enough to get Crabtree?

 

Well, who would you NOT pass up? I'm curious to know.


I still want Alphonso Smith overall...I think he would be the perfect overall choice for us. Hakeem Nicks is the safe WR, Harvin is the high risk/reward guy, and Alex Mack is far and away the safest pick of the round, IMO. (I like this because we can just move Harris to LG and keep Amano as backup. Line SET.) The only way I move off that strategy is if a LB or D-lineman we like is suddenly there, but right now I wouldn't take a tackle in round one.

 

When you move up that high from that low, it's called "mortgaging the future." Put it this way: We could trade ALL of our draft picks and still barely have enough value to reach #15 or so. You would have to get players involved to make it happen, and it's not worth it. Seattle is heavily projected to get Crabtree at #4, and Jacksonville said they would be willing to trade up to #4 to get him. Trading up in the draft is very expensive. Mostly, teams do it within a few spots when they know a team ahead of them has a similar need. The blockbuster trades seldom work out. Ricky Williams comes to mind.

 

No. Maybe he couldn't cut it as a full time receiver. I don't know. I'm not against drafting Harvin I just have some big reservations.