Why not a DT in round 1?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by TorontoTitanFan, Mar 15, 2010.

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  1. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    Well, it's like this. From our current team perspective, we have Brown and Jones to start and are perhaps the best 2 DL we have and also the 2 best pass rushers. Vickerson is a good backup, Haye is solid but unspectacular (and overpaid) and Marks was a 2nd rnd pick though I don't think he'll be much of a pas rusher for awhile. So we have our starting 2 DT's and a lot of depth and young talent.

    At DE, we have Ford and Hayes who would be our current starters and Ball who's OK. Ford doesn't play the run too well but is a better pass rusher than KVB...but he might be best suited as a situational rusher (ie...not a starter). Hayes is solid and improving. We have little depth, no dominant pass rusher, and no high pick in development.

    Last year, we got about 75-80% of our pressure from our DT's and what we were lacking was pressure from our ends. This is why, no matter the draft, we need a DE if we want to get back to having a dominant front 4 pass rush asap.

    None of the DE prospects is worth a top 5 pick and arguably, none of them are sure fire top 10 picks. McCoy and Suh will be gone in the top 5 almost certainly and definitely by the 10th pick. So by pick 16, any of the top DE's could be there (Morgan, Graham, Hughes, JPP, Griffen, Dunlap). Since there is a lot of disagreement on those DE's, even if someone takes one or 2 of them early, the Titans could still get the highest rated DE on THEIR board.

    After McCoy and Suh, the next best DT's are Odrick, Price, Williams, and Cody. Odrick and Price are compareable to the DE's that will be available, but since they are about even (and given our current roster), I think we'd take the DE. I'd eliminate Williams from consideration because he's a 3-4 nose tackle waiting to happen. He's great at eating run blockers, but has little pass rush. Cody is the same but I think Cody 10 lbs lighter COULD develop a nice pass rush but he's further down the list right now considering his weight issues.

    The ONLY way I see them taking a DT is if the DE's, CB's, OLB's, and S's they have rated higher are gone AND they think they could move Jones outside or they think they can take a developmental guy later and think Ford/Hayes can do the job (though little in the way of Plan B).

    Odrick was a difficult guy to block and Price is exactly the kind of penetrator we like at DT so it's a possibility...just depends on how the Titans rate these guys.

    A good question!

    Gut
    #11
  2. TorontoTitanFan

    TorontoTitanFan Pro Bowler

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    A few things I should probably add:

    1) I think Jason Jones might be better off moving back to DE.
    2) I don't have a ton of faith in any DT on the current roster other than Tony Brown.
    3) I rate Dan Williams as highly as I rate some of the DEs in the draft. I agree that he may not be ideal for a 4-3, but I don't think you can write him off as a 3-4 NT so soon. I've read that the Vikings have interest in him and they know a thing or two about finding good 4-3 DTs.

    I don't think it's that crazy to think that the Titans scouts might have a DT higher on their board than many of the DEs.
    #12
  3. Jazzy Titan

    Jazzy Titan yum yum eat em up

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    Theres not one that projects better then jason jones or tony brown that we realistically get at #16. Why do people want to move Jones outside? if we ran the 3-4, I could see that but he is one of the few defensive tackles in the league who actually has some speed. IMO Jones is our best tackle, no reason to crowd that up with a reach pick at 16.
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  4. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Um...

    Why?

    What's wrong with Jones...especially as a pass rusher?

    Why do you rate Williams so highly? He's good at tying up blockers, but wouldn't you agree he has very little in the pass rush department? Wouldn't you agree our biggest problem last year was rushing the passer? Wouldn't you also agree that the BEST way to upgrade our pass rush would be by upgrading DE, not DT?

    As far as the Vikings are concerned, Pat Williams is getting old. They have a great pass rushing DT AND a DOMINANT DE to rush the passer so they can afford to have a big run stuffing DT. Since we DON'T have a dominant pass rushing DE, we can't afford that luxury IMO.

    If they do, it'll be Odrick or Price. Odrick was almost unblockable at Senior Bowl practices and Price has shown to be the quick penetrator the Titans love. Plus, Marks was a run stuffer in college so we already spent a high draft pick on a guy who's more of a stop the run guy.

    Gut
    #14
  5. AH3

    AH3 Rookie

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    If we draft a DT in the first round, his name better be Suh. Otherwise we messed up big time.
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  6. TorontoTitanFan

    TorontoTitanFan Pro Bowler

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    Gut, I think you make a lot of good points and I don't really disagree with anything you said, but I think you are coming too close to completely separating typing up blockers from pass-rushing. They are two sides of the same thing, not different things. A big DT who primarily ties up blockers may not get a ton of sacks (or even really touch the QB), but that doesn't mean such a player can't immensely improve a pass rush overall. If he's tying up blockers, that frees up the DEs.

    I'm just not convinced that the Titans wouldn't benefit equally as much from improved DT play as they would from improved DE play.

    All of this said, I still expect the pick to be a DE and I won't be upset at all when it is.
    #16
  7. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    The difference is a guy like AH ties up blockers vs the run or pass because he's a beast AND a penetrator which is also why he could take that double team and beat it or drive it back toward the QB preventing him from stepping up. Dan Williams is NOT an AH type. He's a Hampton (NT for Steelers) type. He does NOT penetrate which is WHY vs the pass, he does not tie up multiple blockers. What they ARE good at is being extremely hard to move vs even a double team and they are good at shedding blockers (getting off them to tackle a RB as he tries to go past them) or at least stacking the double so there isn't movement at the point of attack. They are great against the run, not great for a pass rush. Cody actually DOES penetrate and tosses guys around, he just hasn't had the stamina to chase the QB. If he could keep dropping his weight and improve his stamina, he COULD be that kind of player....emphasis on COULD.

    I don't think the Titans will rate a DT (besides Suh and McCoy) higher than a DE they could get and if you have two equal players, you take the guy at a position of greater need.

    Gut
    #17
  8. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

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    Gut makes some good points and obviously if there is a DT available who is AH number 2 it would be stupid to pass him up. But there probably won't be.

    I do think Jones will stay at DT but his measurables are every bit as good as the best ends in this draft and he is very similar to Morgan. Look at his size, speed and Jones is comparable. So moving him to the strong side and moving Hayes around with Ford as our designated pass rusher could make sense if there was a real stud DT available.....but there won't be.

    I also wonder if Jones would be less likely to have the physical issues he has if he were playing outside. Not sure if it would make a difference but right now he can't stay healthy. Maybe the elbow and shoulder injuries would be less prevalent if he were on the outside.
    #18
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