Tom Clements...

It's a good thing you don't own the Patriots, otherwise Bill Bilichick would have never gotten a second chance to be a head coach...

 

How pathetic, you guys are touting Clements like he is the greatest thing not even knowing he had a horrible offense in Buffalo. And look who his head coach was in Buffalo, Mike Mularkey.

That's the best you can do, he sucked but give him a 2nd chance?

So every past OC who had a horrible offense is on your short list?

 

How would you know that? Rogers is gifted and would have been successful anywhere.

Can you even name 2 of the 4-5 QB coaches Tom Brady has had? Is Caldwell the reason Manning has had a HOF career?

So Joe Lombardi is an elite offensive genius then? Huh? who? He is the QB coach of the Saints but i guess they are not the media darlings this year.

Joe Lombardi coached up Drew brees!

 

2(3) out of 4 is fairly common names. Charlie Weis(2 seasons), John Hufnagel (1), Josh McDaniels(4) and the current, Bill O'Brien (3).

So, mainly Weis and McDaniels. I'd say it matters.

 

At least 95%, damn right. The difference between a good QB coach and an average QB is not that great. If the player doesn't have it no coach can do a thing for them. Do you honestly think that Aaron Rogers will just become average when Clements moves on to someplace else?

Clements has been an NFL QB coach since 1997 so why are we only talking about Aaron rogers?

What kind of career did Heath Schuler have? How about Billy Joe Tolliver? Clements also coached them. Why didn't he make Schuler a stud QB?

 

This is the bottom line; if Mike Tice had a 2 year record as OC that produced 2 sub par offenses you would consider that iron clad proof he was not deserving to be our OC. But because so many of you talked up Tom clements without taking the 2 minutes to know more about his record you didn't know that he was an OC before so now you have to engage in damage control.

You don't even bother doing the research to support the guy do i have to do that also? Like the fact he was the QB coach for the Steelers in 2001 when Kordell Stewart had his best season and the fact he was the QB coach for KC in 2000 when Elvis Grbac had his best season. So he is a good QB coach and even though he couldn't do a thing with Heath Sculer or PJ losman i will admit that.


So now what? Is being a good QB coach enough? Can you even name Tom Brady's first QB coach?

 

Come on RT, I know you get off on being strident, but all of the info you so diligently went out of your way to research was contained in my first post of this thread (do you even bother to read posts other than your own). You know, that same post where I admitted that other than knowing his name from his CFL days I really wasn't too knowledgeable about Clements' coaching career. How pathetic I am for wanting to discuss a name being mentioned in association with Titans OC job.

The two bad years you site with the Bills were under Mike Mularkey. An offensive head coach... do you doubt that Clements, a first time OC, was simply running Mularkey's offense. There's no doubt that Clements record in Buffalo should be taken in to account, but so should the circumstances surrounding it. I know that in 2005 Clements and Mularkey were feuding (Mularkey was apparently miffed at Clements for interviewing for a job at Temple) and after week 5 Mularkey took over the play-calling duties. Perhaps this was a bad match... Clements has had success at every other stop. I'm not saying we should dismiss Clements time with the Bills, but I am saying it's foolish to dismiss the idea of Clements as OC soley based on his time there.

And we are talking about an offensive coordinator here (not a first round draft choice), if he sucks, he gets turfed. In my mind the upside of a guy like Clements, after spending time with McCarthy, is much more attractive than the decidedly less than innovative Mike Tice (who I don't hate BTW... he did a fantastic job with the Bears last season).

The bottom line is... neither of us really know enough about either candidate to be as passionate as you appear to be about Clements... which makes me think this is just another case of Rolltide being Rolltide.

I wish I'd had that epiphany 5 minutes ago... before I'd bothered hitting respond. :doh:

Carry on with the voodoo you do.

 

Clements should be next on the list in my opinion...

 

You also have to look at the players that coaches have under them in their previous stops. Clements was the Buffalo OC in '04 and '05, right?

In 2004, the offense was #7 in the NFL. The passing game wasn't too awesome, ranking at #27 in yards, but the running game was good, ranking at #13 in yards. He had solid talent this year. Drew Bledsoe was his QB, although Bledsoe didn't have a spectacular year (76.6 QB rating). At RB, he had Willis McGahee and Travis Henry which was a loaded backfield. His WR's were the ancient Eric Moulds, who was still able to mange a 1,000-yard season, and Lee Evans, who had 800-yards, lead the receivers in Y/R at 17.6, and led receivers in TD's with 9. I have no clue how well the OL played, but the RB's struggled with their YPC and Bledsoe was sacked 37 times (although the guy was a statue), so I think it's safe to say the OL wasn't anything more than average.

I wouldn't label that a horrible year at all. In fact, it's pretty good. They scored points, even though their strength was the defense.

In 2005, the offense plummeted to #24 in the NFL. The big difference between this year and the previous one was the QB position. Drew Bledsoe is gone, leaving Kelly Holcomb and J.P. Losman, both of which split time. The passing offense ranked #29 in yards and the rushing offense ranked #20, with Travis Henry now in Tennessee. Eric Moulds is now 32 years old, and both he and Lee Evans had worse seasons. Again, don't know about the OL, but the QB's were sacked more than the previous year at 43 times sacked and the RB's had a worse YPA with 3.8.

This is a horrible year, but look at the players. He has Kelly Holcomb and J.P. Losman playing QB, the most vital position on the team. Henry was gone and McGahee was one year away from being traded. This was Moulds's last season with the Bills, and Evans has only ever been a deepthreat (His Y/R dropped too). The defense took the same nosedive as well.


To me, it's the tale of two different teams. In '04, he had a veteran QB to lead his offense, and had a great defense to back him up. Moulds was a year younger, Evans was used the way he's supposed to, and he had a two headed monster for a backfield. With competant talent, Clements fielded a productive offense. Then in '05, he lost his vet QB in exchange for an average QB in his first year in the system (Holcomb) and an eventual bust (Losman). He lost Henry and only had McGahee, who averaged .1 yards more per carry than LenDale White's career average. And he had a possession WR on his last legs and a one-dimensional WR. I'd like to see anyone field a top offense with that as his core players, along with presumably a meh OL.

This was also over 5 years ago. After 5 more years of experience and coaching under a good offensive mind in Mike McCarthy, you can safely assume he's become a better coach - even if it's by a small amount.

I don't really have a firm stance on who I want the OC to be, but as far as I'm concerned, Clements is a guy who knows how to coach up QB's as a position coach, and as a OC, he's had one successful season and one unsuccessful season - which isn't enough for me to label him a bad OC. And he wasn't let go of for being a bad OC as much as it was because of a complete organizational shift where a new GM in Marv Levy and new HC in Dick Jauron came in. Jauron wanted his own guy, which ended up being Steve Fairchild.

So yeah, I'd be fine with the hire. Cause look, we're not going to nail an elite OC at this point in time. It's too late in the process, and teams have the option to block us from getting the first options. I'd be just as fine with Tice as well.

Also, while I think Clements is a solid coach, I think there is a bit of a hype machine going for him. 1) The Packers just won the Super Bowl, and Rodgers owned in the Playoffs - we all watched that and now it's fresh in our minds, and we want a piece. 2) Trading for Matt Flynn would become a more likely scenario since Clements coached Flynn in Green Bay. Anti-1st RD QB sentiments also tie into this. 3) And lastly, fans know less about Clements than they do a guy like Tice. We know Tice doesn't fit the stereotypical definition of an offensive guru, but we're not too familiar with Clements so we can't typecast him - all we know is he coached Rodgers to a great season and coaches under an actual guru in Mike McCarthy, which makes him appealing. Not to mention, Clements has OC experience, which, whether you think it's good or bad experience, is a position Tice has never held. I think the logic is that even though Clements struggled at times in Buffalo, he can learn from those mistakes and have success in a brand new situation, where as Tice has no experience, so it'll be trial by fire and may be risky under a brand new HC.