Titans Adding Option to Offense

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by goTitans.com, May 19, 2006.

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  1. Titans2004

    Titans2004 Starter

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    Gut- thanks for the nice re-cap on the option. VY is certainly adept at playing from a 3 WR set since in the Rose Bowl they ran it all but 1 time. Chow is known for designing plays to force the defense into certain packages and then trying to exploit the mismatches. Chow now has a great mismatch machine in VY to go along with Troupe plus the pulling skills of Mawae. Just like the Texas offense rarely used the FB, I don't expect us to use one much either. I see us running a ton of 2TE, 2WR sets, with a single RB or 3WR, 1 TE, 1 RB. Even with Volek we should get some good matchups out of those sets, but with VY it really puts a ton of pressure on the defense.

    The formation I really want to see is 2WR to one side and double TE to the other with VY under center and Brown or White as the lone RB. The defense would have to stay in their base set otherwise we could easily over power them to the 2 TE side. How would they chose to defend Bennett and Givens on the same side? I imagine Givens being in the slot with Bennett outside. I don't think any team would want Givens 1 on 1 with a LB or a FS for that matter. The opposing team could bring the other CB over to help in coverage while sliding the SS up on the 2 TE side. But that leaves Troupe and Scaife 1 on 1 with LB and SS and the threat of VY running the ball to that side.

    I've thought about how to defend that formation for days and haven't come up with a great scheme that doesn't leave the Titans with a good mismatch.

    All you fantasy defensive co-ordinators, I want to hear how you would defend that formation.
    #41
  2. Hawk

    Hawk Camp Fodder

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    It has nothing to do with being goo goo eyed over Vince. It is simply aggravating when you throw that one read and run offense crap out there even when I know you have been heavily involved in prior threads where people went to great lengths in explaining to you how wrong that BS is. Yet you still act like it is some kind of undisputed truth. Thus :wall:

    Next time I'll try a softer response so as not to offend you: "Ewker, I am feeling frustrated and ignored because you have not listened to me when I tried to explain the fallacy of the statement that Texas had a one read and run offense for Vince. Now please excuse me while I go remove my tampon." :winker:
    #42
  3. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    No prob T-2004! Glad you enjoyed it! :)

    There are a LOT of ways to defend that formation...but is it 1st and 10? From where on the field? Is Vollek or VY the QB?

    And whose D do I have? 3-4 or 4-3?

    A lot of teams given this formation will slide there DL to the strong side and drop down the SS (even if it's only halfway) to the strong side (as another OLB in run support). They can man up or zone up by either playing CB on WR's or showing zone. Of course, showing zone doesn't automatically make them play zone as they can play a trap coverage. For example, on snap and reading man coverage, your first thought would be to throw the ball to the WR covered by a LB, right? DC's aren't stupid (at least not all of them). They will do this to bait the QB into making this throw. Meanwhile, the LB plays a trail technique (running behind and underneath the WR looking for any in or out cuts or curl/hook routes. He'll undercut any of these routes making them very difficult to complete and giving him a good chance at picking it off...especially if this is combined with a blitz (in which case they'll know the 3 or 4 most likely hot routes favored by the offense). To prevent the long ball, at the snap, the free safety will play over top of this WR...double covering him. There are many variations of this depending on what types of routes the offense likes to ru out of different formations.

    I first learned about these while watching the Ryan brothers tapes on the 46 D. Buddy used these a lot! Suprisingly, not a lot of teams do this anymore, but Pitt does it quite a bit!

    Without playing a fancy trap coverage, most teams WILL still play either match up or zone look. If they go zone look, they either overload to the double WR side or roll the coverage that way.

    Against the run, I'd slide the DL to the double TE side, drop down (halfway) the SS giving it a 4-4 look. I'd play bump and run on the slot WR (keep the WR from cracking a LB or DE) and off-man on the outside WR (he can peak into the backfield off the snap and read run or pass). My OLB to the strongside has the inside TE in man coverage while the SS gets the outside TE in man. To the strong side the MLB gets the RB in man cover (if he doesn't stay into block) but if the RB goes weakside, the OLB to that side has him. On an option play, the freed player kills the QB and the SS to the strongside or the weakside LB on the weakside gets the pitch man. Depending on down, distance and ball location I have a lot of options even out of this D.

    Against a 3rd and 10 type passing down, I'd add another CB and play nickel. I'd slide my DL wide to the weakside (weakside DE 2 yards outside the OT, weakside DT playing a 3 technique (outside shoulder of weakguard), strongside DT playing between strongside G and C and strongside DE playing outside should on strongside DE). My WOLB (Bulluck) would play opposite the weakside OT and blitz (force either the RB to block or QB having to throw a quick hot route), the other LB lines up in between the DT's and has the RB if he goes weakside or drops 7-10 yards in a middle zone. He's also spying the QB. My strong side CB has the outside TE if he releases or if only one releases, he takes the one that releases. If both release he takes outside with SS taking the inside one. My strong side DE will try to bump the inside TE before rushing the passer to slow his release knowing there will be backside pressure...he'll also try to funnel that TE's release into the middle (where the other LB is). The SS will either play man on the inside TE if he releases once he releases. We expect a relatively quick throw forced by our backside pressure (at best single blocking on Bulluck v OT, KVB vs RB and Haynesworth vs OG) so the SS, MLB will look for the INT. If only one TE releases (manned up by the CB), the SS will drop into a deep half-field zone to that side. The slot WR will get tight bump and run coverage and be funnelled inside on his release (towards our FS). The outside WR will get man off coverage with the CB taking away the fade/go route. Our pressure should prevent the 15 yard curl back to 10 which we'd be vulnerable against on the outside. The FS drops a deep middle zone while reading the QB, the blocking, and the routes. If a TE stays into block, he knows the SS will be on top of that side of the field and he can look to jump stuff down the middle and to the weakside.

    Of course, it's awlays possible for the inside TE to block and then release while the SS is dropping back to 12 yards allowing the TE to catch a 3 yard out pass, but our SS should tackle the TE well before the 10 yard first down mark. A screen is taken care of by the middle LB and support from the CB's and S's to prevent a 10 yard gain.

    I think you get the idea.

    Gut
    #43
  4. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Hawk, I have not read every thread, but could you direct me to where these threads are or give me the simple explanation of how he didn't have a one read system in Texas?

    Hoge broke a play down pre-draft for example in which VY clearly didn't make a pre-snap read nor read any receiver other than his TE (the definition of a one read play)...whom he should have suspected would be covered by the defensive alignment. And yet, he just watched that one guy bounce from LB to LB and then got sacked. Of course everyone has a bad play here and there, but that IS evidence that he had a one read system. Furthermore, Mack Brown said the more they tried to coach him, the worse he did. I don't think he was referring to his arm angle. Clearly VY wasn't running a pro-style offense. So what evidence is there that he had to make multiple reads and went through 3-5 man progression reads?

    Gut

    PS - I've watched many Texas games the last 2 years so the Rose Bowl wasn't my first impression of VY.
    #44
  5. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

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    Heck with all that. Put White, Brown and Henry in a bone and play a little Nebraska smash mouth football.
    #45
  6. Hawk

    Hawk Camp Fodder

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    The key there is Hoge broke down "a" play...one play...and not even correctly according to Vince (heard on post draft radio interview). Hoge also fails to mention the very next play in that game where Vince read the blitz perfectly (though he did not have time to make more than one read, he made the right read) and threw a perfect touch pass off his back foot for a TD to the WR with single coverage. That pass is shown and discussed in the "More Vince Video" thread currently on this site. (I'll bump it for your convenience)

    However, I don't know how to find the threads that spelled it out in detail, but Ewker read them and posted on them. I think the best one may have been on the T.O.M.B. boards (somebody actually took the time to go over video of every Texas pass play in the Rose Bowl and point out the multiple reads made by Vince on most of those plays.)

    Having personally watched every single game Vince has played, I have seen Vince throw to 2nd, 3rd, even 4th choices on MANY, MANY occasions. The whole theory is preposterous if you just look at Vince's passing numbers last season. 3,036 yards, 26/10 TD/INT, 65% completions. You simply cannot put up those numbers in an offense where he always ran if the first read was not open. It's total BS. The first read would have to be open almost every time for that to be the case, and that is just not how football works.

    Texas scored over 50 points per game last year (more even than USC's vaunted offense). Again, not possible if that one read and run defense stuff were true. Take out USC and OkState where Vince ran more out of necessity to get the win, and Vince only averaged about 53 yards per game on the ground in the other 11 games. Again, not possible if that one read and run crap were true.

    I will grant that when Vince was a freshman, he would make one read and run, but by midway through his sophmore year he had learned enough that it was no longer the case, and to say that about Vince and Texas last season is just downright laughable.

    Let me just close by saying that those citing Hoge on this point are hanging your hat on the analysis of a guy (Hoge) who in the same segment said Vince should not even be taken in the first three rounds of the NFL draft. The guy is a moron, period.
    #46
  7. Hawk

    Hawk Camp Fodder

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    #47
  8. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

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    Some real nice passes by VY provided by the Horn fans.
    #48
  9. SEC 330 BIPOLAR

    SEC 330 BIPOLAR jive turkey

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    link
    #49
  10. SEC 330 BIPOLAR

    SEC 330 BIPOLAR jive turkey

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    [​IMG]
    omg. Is this the pass in my signiture?
    [​IMG]
    Me thinks it is...:)
    #50
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