The "put up or shut up" thread

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Carpy, Apr 28, 2008.

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  1. vslyke

    vslyke In Dinger We Trust

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    Right. Usually one is the main running back, and one is the backup though. There are very few actual 50-50 splits in the NFL. The Steelers could be one with Mendenhall and Parker. The Titans could be startign next year. The Raiders might be while Run-DMC gets up and running. If Bush continues to struggle, the Saints could go that way. The Panthers mught as well with Stewart and Williams.
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  2. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    Yeah I just read an article on this.
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  3. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    What was the 'problem' in Bush having 85 receptions for 800 yards?

    And if you look into Bush's stats you'll see that he ran very well in the first half of games (4.8 in 1q, 4.6 in 2q) but is half that good in the second half. Considering he split time all through college and his first year, he clearly is not able to handle that kind of starting load right now.

    But the talent is there. 4.6-4.8 for half of games is quite good. He also had a long of 74 yards in year one catching the ball so we know he's explosive. 'Problem' is that no one's gonna put a LB on him now...and a lot of teams with cover him with a CB. So him not having great YPC as a receiver is nothing to worry about. Furthermore, a lot of his catches are still screen and swing passes so he's not likely to rip off 15 yards everytime on one of those. WR's typically have the highest YPC followed by TE's and then RB mainly because of the type of patterns they run.

    I would not be crying if Bush was our Lightning to White's Thunder. I think Bush will turn it around (stat-wise) but needs a good starting RB to compliment him.

    Gut
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  4. vslyke

    vslyke In Dinger We Trust

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    Bush has 2 plays from scrimmage that are over 60 yards. They came in back to back weeks in 2006 against the 49rs and the Cowboys. They were catches for 74 yards and 61 yards. Now, my question is, if he's so explosive, why only 2? And why is his rushing long 22 yards for his whole career?

    Also, his best game rushing was Week 16 against the Giants when he ran for 126 yards on 20 carries. But, in Week 9 of 2006, he had 11 carries for -5 yards. His longest run was 3 yards. I dare you to find one game where someone had a negative yard average with at least 10 carries in the game. You can't do it! Deuce meanwhile, got 32 yards on 15 carries. Still bad, but there's no comparison between the 2.
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  5. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    Well, first you need to understand HOW Bush is being used. The Saints use a lot of risky running plays (risky for negative yardage) with sweeps, pitches and draws from what I've seen. Indeed, he lost most of his yardage on 2 sweeps and a draw in that game. And if the defense is loaded up to stop the run (9-10 in the box), you'll get negative yardage plays vs the run and risky pass coverage. Well, the Bucs decided to stop McCallister and Bush (then did) but got shredded through the air as a result. Who knew at the time how good Colston and Henderson would be...

    So they use Bush to force defenses to load up against the run and or change personel. So even if he isn't running well, he's still helping to open things up for the passing game with mismatches while contributing there himself (he had 5 catches in that game).

    We know he's an explosive player because we've seen it. Why doesn't he have more big stats to show for it? Some of it's the design of the offense, some of it's how defenses are game planning him (let him catch the short stuff) and some of it I couldn't say because I don't watch enough Saints games. However, I wouldn't call him a bad player. He doesn't have great stats running, but I'd have to watch him quite a bit more to understand why it's happening so I'd know if it was Bush, his blocking, the scheme, opposing defensive approach, ect. Maybe I'll try and watch a few more Saints games and see what happens.

    I don't have a name or particular game in memory, but I'm pretty sure it's not only happened before, but is not as rare as you might expect. And for an example, when Barry Sanders went into a traditional offense after the run and shoot days...he frequently would have 15+ carries for negative yards...and then rip off 2-3 big gainers and finish with 140 ytards on 22 carries...but a lot of times the majority of his carries were for less than 3 yards. I believe he also led the league in getting stuffed (# of carries with zero or negative yards) a few times. If it can Happen to Sanders for 15 carries (whom I think is one of the best RB's in NFL history), it can happen to anybody. That doesn't mean it's OK though.

    Gut
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  6. vslyke

    vslyke In Dinger We Trust

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    If they are risky plays, shouldn't he at least get some good yardage? His longest run was for 3 yards.

    He had 4 for 22 yards. Again, if he's so explosive, he should get more. Long of 9.

    He ran by a bunch of guys in college. We haven't seen it in the NFL. I also don't have many chances to watch the 'Aints, but if he was lighting it up, everyone would know.

    Sanders game log for his last season: http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerlog.htm?yr=1998&ilkid=SANDEBAR01. Not a single game with negative YPC. In that season, he tied his lowest ypc of his career. No one else has game logs.
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  7. vslyke

    vslyke In Dinger We Trust

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    Oh. And he had a 88 yard catch against the Bears in the playoffs. So 3 plays over 60 yards. All catches.
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  8. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    Yet his former teammate at USC couldn't run 60 yards. FYI he's a RB for the Titans.:))
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  9. vslyke

    vslyke In Dinger We Trust

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    Different skill set, different uses, different point. Also, 2nd rounder instead of #2.
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  10. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    I just found it cool because White is the all-time TD leader at USC and Bush seems as if he's better as a WR.

    This was the smiley I meant to use.:))
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