The "put up or shut up" thread

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Carpy, Apr 28, 2008.

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  1. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

    I think the Titans are getting closer (depending on how the last two drafts work out anyway) to having the luxury of taking the BPA despite need. For now we have to fill holes or take guys they think can help them fairly quickly. That is why they took CJ. They thought he was a special talent and really didn't want to draft a WR who wold take a few years to develop and might not be any better than what they already have.

    CB could be a serious need in the next year or so but we can always go that route next year in the draft. I believe they were not overly impressed with Merling or he would have been a serious option. As far as going WR in the first 3 rounds I would have liked to see them take a guy like Bennett but I'm not sure hawkins isn't going to be as good as any of the guys they passed on in round 2 and 3.
  2. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    What about CB? No need there? Harper is 34, pacman is gone and fuller will be a free agent next year. Mike jenkins would have been a great pick and he can also return kicks.

    To me CJ was a BPA pick. He doesn't fill any major need position.

    We were the 32nd ranked defense just 2 years ago. Last year we were great but that was with haynesworth having a career year. What if he isn't quite so dominant this year?

    I agree with you about merling and we did go DE in rd 2 and later but we didn't address our CB siruation at all. A RB with speed who can catch the ball could have been addressed in free agency and very inexpensively..
  3. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    The fast WR myth..

    The fastest WR in the nfl today?

    Jerome mathis of the redskins formerly of the texans. A 4th rd pick from 2005 who has averaged 2 catches a season in his nfl career. 3 seasons 6 catches! He is a dangeous kick return man.

    Courney roby. His 4.34 40 time in 2005 was the 2nd fastest in that same combine. Bust!

    Anyone who thinks a CJ can play WR just because he is fast take heed. Mathis ran a 4.28 40!
  4. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    Gut the opinion of the coaching staff was that we needed a left end type which is exactly why we drafted jones in the 2nd. We already have kearse. Groves might not be a good fit in a 4-3 system.

    You say we have no need in the immediant future of a OT? Stewart will be a FA next year. So will loper.

    No need for a DT haynesworth could be gone and starks already is. There were some issues about balmer being more of a 2 gap kind of guy with that slow 40 time but still worthwhile value at 24 in my opinion.
  5. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Space Invaders Champion Tip Jar Donor



    Didn't Washburn say he thought Jones was more of a DT and would play more inside?

    I wouldn't have wanted us to draft Brown OT, Keller TE, or Avery WR ahead of CJ. But any of the others I'd have been much happier with. Not a knock on CJ, just on what I think the team needed more. Hopefully I'm wrong.
  6. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler


    First off...

    If the coaching staff felt we needed a LDE type, we should not have signed Kearse who is a RDE playing LDE. He's always been a better pass rusher than stack and shed run defender. Our defense was very good last year for 3 reasons...Haynesworth having a career year meant more single blocking for the DE's on passing downs. Both KVB and the combo of LaBoy and Odom did quite well when single blocked leading to a lot of QB pressure and sacks. Second, Haynesworth also helped our run D be more stout along with better LB play. Lastly, with no Lamont, we didn't have nearly the number of guys open deep as the last 2 seasons...partly because the secondary played better and part because we got a lot more pressure on QB's.

    So signing Kearse signals that they still want a pass rusher at LDE since if they keep KVB and Haynesworth on the defensive right, offenses will definitely slide their OL that way leaving Kearse single blocked. So my rationale for Groves is that he's a good RDE fit for a 4-3 D. Since Kearse would be the fulltime starter anyway, he could get some rest on passing downs when a Groves could come in and pay immediate dividends as a pass rusher. Drafting Jones gives us 2 problems. First, if Kearse goes down we no longer have a pass rusher at LDE whom offenses will successfully single block. Secondly, he's too small ATM to be anything but a pass rushing DT...and who knows how effective he'll be there this year since he's MUCH smaller than the OG's. If Hayes can be a situational pass rusher, it'll work out...but it is rather easy to see a somewhat likely scenario of Kearse getting hurt and Jones not being able to bring a pass rush and Hayes being too raw to help much this year. Then it'd be up to Schwartz to be creative with moving KVB and Albert around (which he hasn't done much of prior to last season).

    What I mean by fine at CB is that we didn't NEED to draft one high this year. You can make the argument that almost every position is gonna need looking at in the next 2 years...either at starter or at backup. We have starter quality DT's, OT's, CB's, ect.

    In my opinion, we could have used an improved starter (read...1st or 2nd rnd pick) at OG (I'm not convinced Amano is more than a stop gap), WR, DE (since Kearse is both old and injury prone).

    We need future starters at WR, RB (#2 change of pace guy/homerun hitter), OC, potentially RT (if they aren't gonna keep Stewart), DT (if they aren't gonna keep Albert), CB (if they aren't gonna keep Harper and or Fuller), backup passrushing DE (who did we have behind Kearse and KVB?), and perhaps ROLB (Bulluck's not gonna last forever). Even a developmental QB would have been nice. While Collins won us the Indy game, if we retain(ed) Rattay and draft a guy to be 3rd string, we'll save cap money.

    You can make an argument we should have drafted Jenkins(cb), Jackson (wr), Phillips (s), Merling (de), Johnson (rb), ect...

    But while we continue to discuss what and who we should have taken (which is fun)...the only thing that will matter is if these guys we have can play, stay healthy, are used creatively and put into the best positions to succeed...and they DO!


  7. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro


    What? Yes we signed kearse so the need for a pure pass rusher has been diminished. The greater need was for a run stopping end which is why we drafted jones.

    You are just in love with groves and that is fine but they didn't see the reason to trade up to get him that you did..
  8. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    Change of pace homerun hitting RB!

    A concept that is meaningless. We won with eddie getting 90% of the teams RB carries it didn't matter then. Who was our homerun change of pace back during those 2 13-3 seasons rodney thomas? But now it is oh so important to have a guy like that.
  9. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

    When we have White it's needed.
  10. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler


    As I said, the coaching staff obviously felt we needed a pass rusher at LDE which is why we signed Kearse. But since Kearse is older and considerably fragile the last few years, it makes sense to draft his backup (a serious pass rusher) for both insurance and for the future.

    I am in no means in love with Groves, but he was the best value/talented pass rusher we could realistically get after the Jags went after Harvey. That's smart...not love.

    As for a homerun hitting change of pace back...meaningless? Was Reggie Bush's...what...800+ receiving yards his rookie year 'meaningless?'

    And if you remember correctly, one of the few knocks on EG WAS that he didn't have breakaway speed and so we never really got the 70+ yd TD runs. Plus, after 'using up' EG, clearly Fisher favors and RB by committee approach which logically should have backs of contrasting styles so the D has more to worry about and adapt to. You can also attack the type of personel the D uses and a lot of teams don't have the depth nor the talent to both stuff White running between the tackles and have the personel to matchup with CJ in various formations and positions.

    Again, SMART football. And considering we've experienced first hand what can happen when your main back goes down for extended periods (and we are certainly a run first team), it makes perfect sense. And it is not OH SO IMPORTANT except that if CJ is a 'rare' player and is a great playmaker, why wouldn't you want him? He CAN add significant value to the offense if he can do what is advertised...

    But I suppose I'm now 'in love' with CJ too...:wink2:

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