The "put up or shut up" thread

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Carpy, Apr 28, 2008.

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  1. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Carpy i didn't say al those years but they certainly didn't have to go corner corner in 05 and corner again in rd 2 in 06. Sanders was drafted after they already had taken doss in the 2nd a year before.

    2 top picks were on offense remember?

    Helping the defense could mean drafting a linebacker or defensive tackle two other areas where they have had significant FA losses. They specifically went hard for DBs.
    #31
  2. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    An interesting side question.

    Here are the top 10 players taken after we drafted at 24. Of these 10 players who would you rather have taken. rate them.

    Mike jenkins CB
    Brown OT
    Cason CB
    Jackson DE
    Balmer DT
    Keller TE
    Phillips S
    Merling DE
    Avery WR
    Thomas WR

    You may be shocked to know this but i do not prefer all these players to chris johnson. I think the rams were total morons for taking avery that high and made an even bigger mistake than we did. I wouldn't have been crazy about keller either.

    Sorry but i like the DBs here for value. Phillips-jenkins-cason. I just think the defensive side of the ball represented so much more value there.
    #32
  3. Fry

    Fry Hatin' is what I do.

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    thomas, balmer, merling and jenkins(that order)
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  4. Carpy

    Carpy Disgruntled foreign veteran

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    Thomas and Jenkins only for me. As annoyed as I was at the time, the other names on that list (outside the 2 I mentioned) would have anoyed me more.
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  5. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Mike jenkins took over kick returns later on in the year and averaged 31 yards a return. Another possible attribute that he would bring to the table.
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  6. titanbuoy

    titanbuoy medium rare ®

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    Interesting question. It sucks that I don't bring enough real knowledge to the table regarding these guys to honestly rate all of them. I always feel goofy spouting off strong opinions on these guys strictly based on other people's strongs opinions. It's odd I can't get myself back into watching college ball (especially considering my fixation on the pro game... but it is what it is).

    So based on the stuff I'd heard and read I wouldn't have minded the Titans selecting Merling or Cason. I'd have concerns about any of the rest (but again these really wouldn't be my concerns... I'd just be concerned about concerns I'd read and heard from other concerned analysts concerning these particular players...hehehe).
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  7. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    i like a DB going in top 2
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  8. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Huh?

    How can you say my scneraio would NEVER happen (presumably you're talking about trading down into round 2) since this happens in almost EVERY draft?

    The FACT that this has not only happenedin the past, but happens frequently, disproves your opinion.

    Is there some other part of my scenario you have a problem with? I could realistically have gotten MORE value in some of the trades but I was conservative.

    It's not like I traded for a top 5 pick for a pack oh bubble gum...

    Gut
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  9. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    None of the above...but you already know who I would have taken.

    First, why limit this to the next 10 players? Brown might be a good player, but do we need him? Not for the forseeable future. Do we need a first rnd CB, S or TE? Our CB's were fine (and I don't love these guys at 24), we just signed Crumpler (and supposedly gonna run more spread sets...3 wr/1rb/1te...not 2 te's) and Hope and Griffiths don't need any help (unless we dont think Hope will be back at fullstrength...then Phillips would be a possibility). That leaves DT, DE, and WR.

    I'm not thrilled with Balmer (and he's not a need). I'm not big on Jackson either for our system. Merling would have been a solid pick as he's more of a LDE, but I'd rather go for the best pass rusher left (Groves) or a poor man's Kevin Carter type (Calais). As for the WR's, Thomas would not be an immediate impact guy for us though he has loads of talent (and we've had a poor track record with potential WR's who need developing (Calico?). I think Avery's a poor man's DeSean Jackson. I would rather have taken DeSean Jackson who can contribute immediately both in the slot and return duties. He could be the next Steve Smith...but even if he's only a more explosive We Welker, he'd be very valueable to the offense and special teams THIS year.

    And it's not always that these guys are bad or good, but how they fit certain schemes. Some of these players may be more successful on teams that drafted them (presumably THEY think they fit their scheme) as opposed to if we had drafted them...but it depends on the player. For example, one CB might be excellent at man to man and poor in cover 2 zone. If he goes to a man to man team, he can really excel. If he went to our team (who play predominantly zone), he wouldn't be a good fit since we're asking him to do what he's worst at.

    If you read books on the Pats, the guy who rates the players doesn't get into trouble if a player he rated as a first rnd pick goes to the Colts in rnd 2 and fails. His argument is that the player would have fit the Pats system much better and he would have performed better. So some of the success or failure of these players is determined by the teams, personell, system, and coaches they have. Bill Parcells used to argue this point frequently as well when a player he wanted in rnd 1 went to another team and was a 'bust.'

    Things to keep in mind...

    Gut
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  10. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    The draft is for future need not immediate. Drafting someone like Jenkins would've been a nice pick because he could replace Harper in 1-2 seasons. I'm not disputing the CJ pick I'm just clearing up the meaning of the draft. I agree with not drafting a WR in the 1st because their wasn't that true #1 WR but drafting one within the 1st 3 rounds would've been nice.
    #40
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