The cardinal sin of the running QB..

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by RollTide, Dec 10, 2007.

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  1. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Interceptions..

    If a QB isn't going to throw for 300 yards and win games often with their arm then it is imperative that they take care of the football and not give it to the other team. In my research i have found that the good QBs have been solid in this respect and that all of them were solid from the beginning, it wasn't something that they developed. Vince young on the other hand has problems..

    Passes per int..
    Mcnabb--46
    Mcnair---38
    Cunningham-32
    Vick-----31
    Culpepper-31
    Young---22*

    *This year young is throwing a pick for every 19 pass attempts.

    Ints per season(13 or more starts)
    Mcnabb--11
    Mcnair---12
    Vick-----12
    Cunningham-13
    Culpepper---15
    Young--17*

    *Note that i estimated young's ints this year at 20 based on his averages.

    Note also that young has 16 ints this season with 3 games to go and neither mcnabb nor mcnair have ever had that many ints in any one season! Cunningham had 16 once but that was a year when he threw for almost 3900 yards and had 24td passes. I think we would forgive vince's 16 ints if he had 3900 yards and 24tds.

    I write this to illustrate that vince young is at the heart of our offensive woes. Yesterday he had just 21 pass attempts but threw 2 ints. Even 1 int would have been too much..
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  2. Big TT

    Big TT Pro Bowler

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    Change teams, I think they sell colts jersey's online. I'm sure you will look great in a number 18. I only kid, what is your point, we all know you don't and have never liked VY. You are not willing to let him grow, you throw stats out like a college prof. about all things wrong with Vince yet you will not admit what we, his backers, are saying he is handcuffed by fisherball just like McNair was, he has below avg. wr's and te's. Do some research on that, look and see around the leauge where if any place any of our wr's would be starters. I can't name a team that has a worse set. No QB can throw with sucess when they are put into 3rd and longs all the time, we watched fisherball for years with number 9, now with number 10.
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  3. GoTitans3801

    GoTitans3801 Forward Progress!

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    His point is that Vince has a significant problem with INTs. You can justify it however you like, but it's a big problem, and it has to change.

    Other teams have bad WR, the Vikings, 49ers, Falcons, and Dolphins all have at least as bad a WR corps as we do. Complain about fisherball too, but that's not something to just accept and say that it's ok for Young to throw 2 INTs per game... RT is making a valid point, especially when arguing that the other QBs on his list didn't have to improve in this area.

    I was really excited when we picked Vince, and loved him all last year. This year has been a trying one. We've seen a couple of improved games, but mostly he's struggled. We need him to get better to be a successful team, or a playoff team.
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  4. PhiSlammaJamma

    PhiSlammaJamma Yao

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    It's not a point until he compares the stats of all qb's in their first and second year, as well as demonstrating the rations for all 2nd year qb's over there first two years. It could be the same, better, or worse. Just need a bigger sample size other than a select few prbowlers.
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  5. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    And you can add to this that the majority of Young's passes are quite conservative in relation to those other players mentioned.

    This isn't a slam on Young. Just reality. Until he gets better, the Titans will remain an average team.

    When Young is having a rough game (as he did yesterday), Chow/Fisher further tie his hands and make a conservative offense even more conservative. No problem when we are running well but a major issue in long yardage situation which the Titans found themselves in too often yesterday.

    It created a 3-0 halftime lead. That lead should have easily been 9-0 or more and we're in a blowout by the end of the third.
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  6. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    I have been one of young's biggest supporters on this board and was the very first person on this entire site to suggest drafting young way back in december of 2005! I started a whole thread on it!

    I have never been a young basher but his play is speaking for itself so if you want to keep your head stuck up that dark smelly place be my guest.

    Fisher and chow are handcuffed by young. That's why i started this damn thread. I just proved that with facts. If young is throwing a pick every 19 passes(i used comparative stats to prove how bad that is) would the solution be to throw more passes?

    As for bad WRs look at the guys mcnair had early in his career, or the thrash-pinkston pair that mcnabb had to work with for years or the bad WRs vick has had. Vick's leading WR were brian finneran, peerless price.
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  7. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    On that third down play late in the game with just over 2 minutes left and a TD lead, I was shocked to see Young passing towards Scaife. The conservative play would have been to run it and force the Chargers to use their final timeout. Fisher took a shot with Young there.
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  8. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Look at jeff's point.

    Young is throwing an int every 19 passes in an offense designed primarily to not give the ball up. Obviously we are failing in our objective.

    What got me when looking at these other QBs is that none of them had these major problems with ints early in their careers except cunningham in his rookie year when he only played in 6 games . Here was steve mcnair literally off the farm as a rookie in houston and that rookie year mcnair threw 80 passes as a backup and had just one pick. He had just 4 picks in 143 pass attempts his second year. Mcnabb had 39 passes per pick in his first 2 seasons and vick 48 passes per pick in his first 2 seasons.
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  9. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Slamma be my guest. You come up with the data for every QB drafting in the first rd for the last 20 years. Then if the information tells a story we will have it.

    I compared vince to those other guys because that's what we wanted vince to be when we drafted him. That's what we thought vince was after last year.
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  10. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Another interesting comparison..

    QBs drafted in the 2006 draft.. Exception of ingle martin and charlie whitehurst who have not thrown a pass yet and jacobs who is out of the league..


    Passes per int..

    Gradkowski--35
    Leinart------30
    Cutler-------29
    Croyle-------26
    Clemens-----25
    Jackson------25
    Young-------22
    #10
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