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Taylor Mays

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by 24, Mar 3, 2010.

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  1. luvyablue23 Camp Fodder

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    he should get banned for saying that Mays is as good a prospect as Berry?
    Come on now; we're all fans and we all have opinions. There is nothing wrong with that but as an ex told me a long time ago; if you're fighting a fight and you resort to namecalling; you lose all credibility.
    Im not trying to sound holier than thou etc either, just saying I don't think anybody would join this message board if we didn't love the Titans and that is what is important. No matter how different the opinions.
    however the clown who joked about the rumored VY suicide attempt is a jackass. Anyone who jokes about suicide of one of our own (truth or lie) isn't considered one of our own.
    #51
  2. Deuce Wayne Damnit, I cant find my driving moccasins anywhere!

    Martin
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    I'm not even saying Mays is as good as Berry- but I am saying the difference isn't THAT great from a college analysis. Berry was the most hyped guy going in to this season and he's still floating on last season's hype.
    If Berry was a QB people would be saying "He'd be the first pick if he came out last year, but since he waited- he's a 2nd rounder".

    And using the "no one threw his way" argument doesn't work for SAFETIES. A safety reads the QB. A safety plays a specified zone. The QB doesn't search for a safety then throw the ball somewhere else. He's not a cornerback. He goes to the ball, not the other way around.

    And he was expected to break that record that you're giving him credit for. It was supposed to be guaranteed that he broke that record- but he didn't, because he simply didn't play as good this year.


    Why haven't I been banned yet? Because I don't get butt-hurt when someone dislikes a player I do and start calling people 'idiots'. :)

    Berry is the best Safety. But it's not by far and away like ESPN wants everyone to think. Morgan Burnett has been the only player on GT's defense that's worth something the last 2 seasons (other than Michael Johnson- whom IMO was never special), yet he's never mentioned though his stats and play has been right with Berry both the last 2 years. He also did his best work vs SEC teams... in case someone wants to use that argument.
    Yet he doesn't have huge hits or interception return yards... so he's ignored.
    Mays was injured and still hung around Berry as far as the numbers go. But since he didn't hit Tim Tebow once or twice, there's not as much hype for him.


    The gap isn't THAT wide is all I'm saying.
  3. Gut Starter

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    Well...

    Thanks and you're welcome!

    In general, LB's have to shuffle there feet (moving towards the direction the runner's going) 'til a RB gets even with them and once the play is diagnosed. Then they will turn and run or shoot a gap depending on their responsibilities in that front and defensive scheme. Big runs in the NFL typically happen when a player...LB is overagressive and over-runs his pursuit. A rb starts to his left and instead of shuffling to the point where he needs to run, he runs right away. The running back cuts back and the LB is no longer there to take on the lead block or the RB. Every NFL team have good mis-direction plays...add in a guy like CJ running it and you have all kinds of problems trying to be 'sound.' Mays IS an overly aggressive player and teaching him to be patient and then explode is not as easy as it sounds...especially when he'll be reading new keys and having to avoid trash and take on OG's, OC's or OT's. He doesn't usually have to fight through any trash as a S.

    You can start at USC or anywhere else without instincts if they stick you 20 yds deep down the middle and you can outrun everyone else.

    When we say he takes bad angles, we aren't talking all the time, just more than you'd like. If he never took good angles he can't start. The problem as a S projecting to the NFL is that if you take a bad angle, you probably just gave up a TD. In college, maybe that's a 30-40yd gain and your D can still recover and force a FG. If Mays takes 3 bad angles in a game, you'd better hope that the ballcarrier is being tackled by someone else.

    The first plays shows the good and bad of Mays. There aren't a lot of FS's starting in CF who can get to a Golden Tate streaking down the sideline. Mays can. Problem is, if he tracked the ball, he could have easily intercepted it or at worst knocked it away. But instead he tried to bash Tate and he almost whiffed which is why when they show the backside angle, Tate barely is moved by Mays hitting him. Mays is at fullspeed and outweighs him by 30lbs. Tate didn't get intimidated. Is that all that Mays can be or can he learn ball skills and go after the ball instead?

    The second play was a great call by the DC...CB takes away the outside and any in cutting route, Mays knocks him out. Again, Mays was there for the perfectly set up kill shot and didn't crush him. It actually looks like Mays was the intimidated one. You have thought the WR was the one 30lbs heavier since Mays sort of put his shoulder in but didn't try to knock him into next week. Tate catches it and easily bounces off him for the TD. These plays show the good and bad of Mays although they don't show the occasional terrible angles he takes. I'll see if I can find a youtube one showing that so you'll see what I mean.

    On the flip side, the play where he stops Best is how you want to use him on run downs. He didn't over react to the inside fake (most likely they told him to key on Best) so he was able to run down Best on the outside. If Best was bigger or Mays smaller, Best might have been able to gain the first down with the stiff arm...but Mays is Big AND fast. If you want a S who can play like that and be a Mack truck with a Ferrari engine as a blitzer...Mays is your guy.

    Yes and yes. It gave them one more year of game film to analyze what he does well and what he doesn't. And frankly, with that defense losing so many good players, him taking a bad angle wasn't covered up as well by someone else making the play, so his mistakes were amplified. Additionally, they were a bigger shock because everyone KNOWs he would have been a top 10 pick last year.

    I'm not a big USC fan, but I've seen Mays enough to know his strengths and weaknesses. The mistakes he makes are not really explainable as in he was doing what he was coached to do. No one is gonna coach him to not intercept the ball and instead let the WR catch it and then try to knock him out.

    Keep also in mind that outside of him being stiff in the Hips and not demonstrating good instincts right now, doesn't mean almost all of his flaws can't be corrected. He could still be a Hall of Fame S, it's just that his odds of doing so are worse and his chance to bust is significantly increased...especially if he isn't used to amplify his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.

    Anytime:)

    Gut
  4. Gut Starter

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    Um...

    Did you watch Ten play this past season? Even though Berry didn't have as many stats as he has had in the past, he probably was better this year because of the WAY they used him. There was a good analysis of how they used him against FLA for example. They weren't worried about FLA passing, but it's misdirection running. When Tebow faked one way, Berry attacked the backside since FLA likes to go there with there misdirection. With Williams clogging the dive, they did a great job slowing down FLA's bread and butter. Putting Berry in the box and having him attack that spot meant he was usually engaging the lead blocker allowing someone else to make the tackle...but he made the play. Take Berry off that D and they are MUCH worse...especially since he was used by Kiffin to constantly take away the offenses strength.

    It's actually the exact opposite. Berry is seen as just as good if not better (considering he can do everything and he had the expected combine) while Mays, who would have been a top 10 pick last year, is fighting to get picked in the middle of round 1 and may have been passed by several players.

    If a S is playing a flat zone, how is that different from a CB playing a flat zone? And believe me. With Berry or Mays, you're checking to see where they are on every play. There is no player better in coverage on TEN than Berry so you'd really prefer to stay away from him. And you don't really want to float a ball up near Mays either or he might kill your WR. CB's and S's can both be avoided.

    Not right. He was used differently this year which is why he didn't have as many opportunities to make interceptions. And to his credit, he did what he did for his team. You didn't hear him say anything about...I would have broken the record if they used me better or some such nonsense. Him almost breaking the record in just a couple of years shows his talent.

    Which SEC teams did Burnett do his 'best work' against and what do you mean by best work? Berry's play allowed TEN to have a good shot at beating FLA AND ALABAMA...arguably the 2 best teams in college football. Berry also didn't have the benefit of a first round passrusher (Burnett has Derrick Morgan and Mays had Griffen) either. I agree that Burnett is a talented FS and in a normal year could go in the first rnd but more likely rnd 2. But Berry, Mays and Thomas don't make this a normal year and Burnett doesn't have the upside the other 3 do. Burnett is a safer player than Mays and Thomas. Berry is better than all of them because he can do EVERYTHING. He can fit into any scheme and be very successful (as proven by his play and it's impact on his defense - not stats). Mays can't. We're not sure if Thomas can remain at S. Burnett has some issues himself but he's a very good player. He's just not a game changer right now.

    Gut
  5. Deuce Wayne Damnit, I cant find my driving moccasins anywhere!

    Martin
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    The only thing Morgan Burnett lacks that the other 2 have is speed. Which is the killer in drafts, even though you'd think GMs would learn by now.

    But Burnett had less help in GTs defense than either Berry or Mays did at UT and USC- and IMO, Burnett is just as good a safety as Berry. He may not hit as hard, but that's it.

    I know, you'll say stats don't tell the whole story, but just to paint a picture:

    2008

    Morgan Burnett:
    Tackles- 93
    Solo - 62
    Assist - 31
    Sack - 0
    FF - 1
    Ints - 7


    Eric Berry
    Tackles - 72
    Solo - 52
    Assist - 34
    Sack - 3

    FF - 0
    Ints - 7

    2009

    Morgan Burnett:
    Tackles- 77
    Solo - 40
    Assist - 37
    Sack - 0
    FF - 0
    Ints - 4

    Eric Berry
    Tackles - 83
    Solo - 54

    Assist - 29
    Sack - 0
    FF - 1
    Ints - 2

    As far as the SEC opponents- He pretty much single handedly won the game vs Georgia. They were getting killed until he took over. Big game vs Ole Miss, and Miss State.

    Saying he isn't right with the 3 just says you haven't seen him play or you've bought in to the Lebronizing of Eric Berry.
  6. Big Time Titan Big Time Titan

    Wright
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    Nice.
  7. luvyablue23 Camp Fodder

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    The point counterpoint analysis is pretty good here. Us taking a safety though would probably require us to move Griffin to corner.
    To that end; how good of a Corner do you think Griffin is based on his play his rookie year and what are the flaws in his game utilized as corner?
    I think he'd do better than Harper but if I remember he had tight hips and his backpedal left some to be desired. i dont know if it was experience or just physical limitations. Thoughts?
  8. Big Time Titan Big Time Titan

    Wright
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    My biggest knock on him is that he wasn't quite quick enough to keep up with the really good WRs, and he fell for the juke way too easy. To be fair, he was a rookie.

    Going back to him replacing Harper at CB though. He is much faster than Harper, is more instinctive, has much better awareness of where the ball is (which Harper had zero awareness) and is willing to work at improving.

    Not saying Harper wasn't willing to work hard, just that he had already peaked and wasn't gonna get any better. Griffin is still young and could be really good with a lot of work. I'd be ok with the move to CB for Griffin.
  9. Carp Special Teams Standout

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    Of course it does. Hell even the announcers were saying as much during the season. QB's didn't throw it deep, and they certainly didn't throw it to his side of the field (we often had 2 safeties deep). Berry was just as good as any other year. He simply just didn't get as many opportunities to make plays. That was evident in virtually every single game this season.

    Do you even watch football?
  10. Carp Special Teams Standout

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    Griffin would be an ideal solution to CB if Berry were a realistic option. But he's not, and I don't know that Mays or Earl Thomas are any better options than Griffin. I think people were too hard on Griffin this past season. He wasn't great, but I didn't think he was bad by any means.
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