Robert ayers is the man!

the 40 yard dash is alot more than pure speed players can get somewhat faster by training in a month but a lot of it is getting their technique down on the start and even stride length. Players have cut times down by simply improving the length of their strides.

 

Lol...

In simple terms...YES! If you keep training, you will keep increasing your 40 time until you reach your bodies maximum ability. Football players in college simply don't know HOW to really train for a 40 until they go to these training institutes. The FACT that professional sprinters continually improve there 50m and 100m times over YEARS of training means college football players can surely keep improving there 40 times over a few months.

Why do keep saying I don't understand what you're doing when I do. But it is YOUR choice to ONLY compare combine times and ignore players that keep working out and keep improving.

So you think players that work out 6 hours a day don't get any better? Your opinion is incorrect and there is an overwhelming amount of data to prove it. Do you think Sprinters are 'maxed' out after training for 3 months out of college?

Gut

 

Lol...

I didn't say huge advantage though in some cases it would be. In other cases not at all if a player has already 'maxed' out his potential. I said it is likely that most prospects with a month or more of training would improve. The statistics support this.

It is fair to compare players best times recorded. It was Ayers choice not to run at his pro day after a slow 4.9 40 at the combine. If he was FASTER than that he should have run because it could make him MILLIONS of dollars. Typically, the only players who DON'T run at their pro day are guys with very good to elite times OR players who think they are maxed and don't want to 'confirm' this.

It's called TRAINING!

and since ayers did not run on pro day you can only compare the combine times for both. In short i'm right![/QUOTE]

Even with FACTS against you...you think you're right. Hilarious!

If two kids are in high school and player A is timed at 4.5 and player B at 4.75 and then the 2 go to college where Player A has a personal trainer and Player B is working out. A year goes by and Player A is tested on his college surface and runs a 4.3 40. Player B chooses not to run on a 'faster' track. You're telling me player A's 4.3 doesn't count because it wasn't on the same surface? How could you compare any player to another speed/athleticism since they aren't all running on the exact same surface? Furthermore, you would draft the slower kid because he played well at a HS all-star game while Player A's numbers are elite for COLLEGE.

Have fun with that!

The only upside for Ayers is that he was Def MVP in the Senior Bowl and did a good job in practices leading up to the game. His measurables are mostly avg to poor, his production as a pass rusher was nearly non-existent, and the FACT he couldn't get on the field til he was a senior is a bad sign. His change of direction at his pro day was impressive. Too bad you can't use it. You know how much comparing field turf to field turf is unfair!

Why would the NFL employ scouts if they can't compare the numbers of players on a different surfaces?

Gut

 

I have no experience of training for sprints.Just my thoughts on how an athlete can improve quickly between his combine workout and pro day workout.

As an experiment in 07' my training partner and I started training as if we were going to be doing the combine bench press.

Normally we trained for strength at 4-8 reps and found that for reps above that range with 225 we quickly burned out.Our muscles just weren't used to that kind of endurance.

Within a month I added 10 reps to my bench press and my buddy added 11.After that progress was slow as we'd reached our short term peak at the high rep range.

After two months of training for reps we returned to our normal routine and found that our heaviest set was about 50lbs down due to training for reps.

I'm guessing that beginning a training regimen design specifically to improve sprints would produce similar quick short term gains.Any time you change your routine you make gains quickly as your muscles adapt to the new way of working and then progress levels off.

What an athlete does over time through accumulative training is likely completely different to the way he trains for the combine workouts.

 

Yes...

In addition, consider that if you've been doing the bench press for 4+ years, you probably are maxed out on improved technique helping you and are - instead - relying on your muscle adaptation only.

The vast majority of college football players are NOT track guys but they all lift. And when they are timed in campus agility tests, they don't use the same technique as they do in the combine nor as sprinters use for the 40...they just line up and go on a whistle and are handtimed.

When draft prospects go to these training institutes, they have there 40 dissected and are taught new techniques from start, to stride length, to when to bring there head up, to how to split the 40 into different sections with different things to focus on for each section, to counting the number of strides, ect....but this is also personalized for each person. There is a LOT of technique work when you work out with a Michael Johnson who has HOW many Golds? Plus, these guys are used to training to play football, not run the fastest 40 of their life so the y have adaption to new training and recovery but have a mostly a lot of technique to learn, memorize...but more importantly...need to know it like they know their playbook. A lot of prospects don't run their absolute best time in the 40 at the combine because they are still trying to think through the technique. Frequently another month of hard training, another 100 reps of their technique, and comfort factor of running in a familiar environment surrounded by people they know...gives them their best chance at their best times.

This is why you will see some guys add a few reps to their bench (no technique improvement - only hard training) but why a 40 or a cone might jump up significantly (hard training, more familiar technique.

Gut

 

Well...

Familiar with? Sure. Having played football in high school...I'M FAMILIAR with running a 40 yard dash. However, I have never trained in all the technique stuff a potential draftee with learn in these combine prep places. I don't remember the player, but I remember reading one guy improved his 40 by more than .1 simply because his friend (who went to one of these training places) showed him how to start correctly.

I think the spirit of what you're saying I totally agree with. Who cares how fast a guy can run a 40 if he has to use sprinter/track techniues to run it. And we know some guys with elite 40 times don't play that fast and others...with poor 40 times play VERY fast. Jerry Rice comes to mind. I remember seeing a picture of Rice blowing by Louis Wright (I think). Rice supposedly ran in the 4.6 range while Wright was supposed to have 4.2 speed.

Well, more often than not, the 40 times listed of HS kids are way over-exaggerated. How many times do you hear a guy supposedly has 4.3 speed and then he runs a 4.5...or WORSE! It would not shock me if some HS had exceptional speed...but almost all the kids with exceptional speed DO run track and are somewhat faster because of there track technique when again - measured to run in a straight line. I can tell you, the fastest kid on my HS team ran a 4.50 in pads...not shorts...but he was a super track star. He didn't run that fast in a game unless he got down a sideline.

And stop bringing up that improved technique can make you super humanly fast. We all have a potential we will not go past without steroids.

However, the trend towards track times getting faster and faster means at some point we MAY see someone run a legit 4.1 in the relatively near future. Only question is...will that matter on the field?

Gut