Rating the pass defense

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by TM, May 25, 2006.

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  1. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    One of the FEW harsh criticisms I have for Fisher is regarding his coaching staff and handling of them when they stink. Lowry for example should have been fired about 10 years ago (at least it feels like it). He was a sub-par ST coach and after they tried him at receivers coach...he stunk up the joint! Yet Fisher didn't fire him....and he's STILL on the staff.

    The other guy that burst my bubble was the OC during EG's prime when our offense was either run, run, run, punt or run, run, mcnair scranmble or hit wycheck for a first down. I can't remember his name...I think I permanently erased him from my memory it annoyed me so (despite the fact that I met the man in Atlanta prior to the Super Bowl)! And Fisher never got rid of him either....the guy took off to Tampa (who had even worse offensive problems than us), lasted one season before getting fired and out of the NFL.

    But you have to look at it in context too. Fisher took over an excellent defense and kept them very good, even when he became head coach. Gregg Williams was the first real departure for our defense getting away from a 4-3 with an emphasis on a 46 D package. Williams kept the hardhitting but changed the way the defense was run (added more overload zone principles, changed our blitzing) though we still play mostly man. Since Gregg Williams worked out so well, it's hard to find fault with our D prior to Schwartz.

    On offense, we've had some bad coaches. But I thought Dinger was gonna be our turning point. I was also happy with the Norm Chow hire. However, I'm baffled and flabbergasted about Schwartz and the defensive coaching!

    Belicheck gets a lot of the credit for the Pats defense because he's running the system he designed (his playbook) and he's personally trained these guys in the system under him for years and years. Clearly, Fisher is allowing Gregg Williams and Schwartz to change the defense and run their own playbooks. For this reason, I wouldn't give Fisher a lot of credit for the D being good or bad EXCEPT that he's the guy who hired Schwartz and has NOT fired him so he is ultimately responsible for Schwartz.

    But make no mistake, the D (as designed and executed) is Schwartz's baby. But Fisher is the one that needs to fire him!


    Gut

    #41
  2. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor Tip Jar Donor

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    Les Steckel
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  3. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Lowry and schwartz.....

    Lowry's kick and punt return coverage has always been quite good. We always seem to be at or near the top ten in those. I think that's all fisher cared about for a while. It's the return teams that have sucked but last year with pacman we were in the top 10 in both kick and punt return average.

    I think a case can be made that our coverage teams have been good in large part because reese has supplied the team with a steady stream of good athletes. Not becausew of great coaching and we all remember that game against oakland in 2002.

    On balance lowry is at best an average coach and that shouldn't be good enough. If jeff fisher is a success driven head coach who demands exellence from his coaches and players then why does he tolerate so much mediocrity?

    Last years 70% effort should have caused some serious changes to be made beyond just firing the linebacker coach. If fisher is willing to tolerate mediocrity then that means he is a mediocre coach. Someone tell me how i am wrong.
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  4. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Fisher's success...

    Fisher coached 2 13-3 teams because he had several near hall of fame players in their primes. Steve-eddie-wycheck-kearse-hopkins and several other fine players like samari-runyon-godfrey-bishop-robertson-robinson-mason as well as one of the all time greats in bruce matthews. What average coach couldn't win with that team?

    After the humiliation of that last fags game fisher who was personally mocked by fags fans angrily said he would do everything possible to fix this team. So what has he done? How many heads have rolled? Is this just an average coach throwing darts at the wall hoping to God that young and white can do for him what steve and eddie did? Seems like it.
    #44
  5. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Lowry should have been fired a couple of times.

    Les Steckel...UGH!

    If you go back to Lowry's earlier days with the Titans, our coverage units were not good, we kept bringing in way past their prime returners who did nothing (no blocking), and one year we lost 2 games on blocked kicks...I think one was against the Seahawks on a game winning FG attemp that was blocked and returned for a TD. And that was when Del Greco was CLUTCH! We also had the infamous game when Hentrich had to try a long FG (against Chicago I think) with 10 people because Del Greco was warming on the sidelines oblivious to them needing him.

    In his early days, he was a below avg coach. To be fair, he did copy the music city miracle and it worked when we needed it to and while we've been stinking, he has drawn up some interesting punt fake plays. But after his stint at WR coach, he needed to be fired.

    Over however many years he's been with the Titans, he's worked his way up to avg. Woopee!!!

    Gut



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  6. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Well...

    Well, no one can argue the point that he's not been heavy handed enough with below avg or avg coaches stinking up the joint. He should have fired Lowry, Steckel, Schwartz and anyone else underperforming. I understand that sometimes coaches need a year of breaking in...like a Schwartz. You can give him a break his first year as DC. He'd better not be aweful but if he doesn't out coach the better OC's in the league...I get it. But 5 years is WAY too long to let this stuff go! And yes, Fisher and Reese are both responsible for the people they hire and don't fire.

    But as I said, it's really the ONLY harsh criticism of Fisher. Other than that (and it's not exactly a small thing), he's an excellent head coach in the other areas.

    However, you decide on what criteria you judge people...be they players or coaches. If you want to say Fisher is a mediocre coach because he allows mediocrity and had the benefit of an excellent DC and many good to great players in their prime's? I get it.

    I don't agree with that because almost all coaches are flawed to some extent and usually Fisher's positives outweigh this negative. Not always because Schwartz is hampering this teams advancement and that annoys me to no end...but usually he's a very good coach.

    If you could trade Fisher for another coach in the league, who would you exchange him for? How many coaches are in the league that you'd rather have?

    Gut

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  7. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

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    If you have two OLBs and two Ss that are interchangable the system could work. The problem is a S is going to be expected to be both a good run stopper SS and a good cover guy FS. Considering we haven't seen either of those traits in the last few years it might be asking alot to expect a guy like Thompson, who sucked in coverage and against the run to now all of a sudden be good at both. We drafted Lowry as the 3rd guy in our draft over Ko Simpson because Lowry is more fit to be a "tweener" a guy who can either:

    1. play both SS and FS effectively or
    2. play both SS and FS ineffectively.

    We may have passed on a real steal at FS so we end up with a guy who isn't particularly great at either postion?

    Thornton is good enough he might be able with Bulluck to pull it off at the OLB spot. I would rate Thornton much higher than Thompson as far as his ability to play his position effectively.
    #47
  8. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Fisher an average coach...????

    Jeff fisher has won 53.5% of all the games he has coached. Never won a super bowl. Why would i hold him on some pedestal as a great coach?

    Gut asked a loaded question asking who i would rather have as the titan coach because that involves personalities. Brian billick is a jerk why would i want him coaching my team? I also don't care much for mike holgren, bill parcells or mike shanahan. I just personally don't like them.

    I consider these coaches to be better than jeff fisher.

    Bill Belichik
    Jon gruden
    Tony dungy
    Mike shanahan
    Andy reid
    Bill cohwer


    At least equal to fisher are:
    marvin lewis
    brian billick
    mike holmgren
    mike sherman
    Tom coughlin

    I still have not mentioned 2 hall of fame multiple super bowl winning coaches in parcells and gibbs and dick vermeil though now retired has a similar career winning percentage and beat fisher head to head in a super bowl. And what about mike martz who has a 62% career winning percentage, made the playoffs in 4 of 6 seasons and it was his offense that was integral to winning a super bowl.

    As you can see there are quite a few pretty good coaches in this league so why after this abomination of season from hell should i be kissing fisher's butt?

    Now before we have our little whine fest i would advise you to do your homework and know the records of these guys before you spout off.

    Correction: Jeff fisher has had 4 losing seasings. 95, 01, 04 ,05. He has had the same number of losing seasons as winning seasons.
    #48
  9. Gunny

    Gunny Lord and Master Tip Jar Donor

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    Has Dungy ever coached a team without a tonne of talent?
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  10. Starkiller

    Starkiller 9

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    Fisher has had to coach under some pretty rough circumstances at times. He took over a pathetic Oilers team that almost immediately became homeless vagabonds for 3 years. Yet he still managed to avoid a single losing season during that wandering stage.

    As soon as they had their own stadium, he coached the Titans to the league's best record over a 5-year span (1999-2004). That included back-to-back 13 win seasons, 2 division titles, 2 trips to the AFC Championship game, and 1 Super Bowl run.

    Since then, he had a 2005 team that was beset by injuries basically unheard of in the modern era and a rebuilding team in 2006.

    I wouldn't necessarily say Fisher is the best in the business, but he is in the upper echelon.
    #50
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