Rating the pass defense

Ms. Titan...

The coaches you mentioned SHOULD become good-great coaches. But since it is very early on in their tenure, we won't know for 10 years how good or bad they are. Of the below coaches how many playoff appearances do they have?

Good coordinators don't always make good HC's so despite their success as coordinators or college coaches...it doesn't always work out that way. Even Belicheck failed as a head coach his first shot with Cleveland.

Patience. But your characterization is like saying VY will probably be a better NFL QB than McNair. It's possible, but he hasn't even been successful yet so those characterizations are very premature.

Gut

More of the same from gut...

You dimiss accomplishments because they came with talent yet jeff fisher coaches playoff teams loaded with talent. Fisher's only super bowl team in 99 had steve-eddie-wycheck, bruce, hopkins, kearse, rolle, bishop, robertson and robinson. And that was when all those guys were in their physical prime and kearse was an absolute monster. He damn well better win with that group and his defensive coordinator was gregg williams.

Your comment about tony dungy makes idiocy seem smart. The guy has been to 8 playoffs in 9 years. Even vince lomabardi didn't do that. Common sense would tell you he has built a platform for a hall of fame career since he still has many years still to coach. Duh.

You put donovan mcnabb in the hall gut. Just because it fits your silly arguments? More on that later.


As far as certain coaches being available to the titans? Who cares? I didn't say we should fire fisher just that he isn't some superstar coach. The point being that there are a lot of guys who can coach and MANY more accomplished! A simple fact.

Jeff fisher is coming off his worst season ever as a coach a season in which he was pitiful. By gut's own admission he hired and keeps two subpar coordinators. Why should i consider him elite? We shouldn't.

Mcnair vs mcnabb...

Gut said that andy reid's coaching accomplishments are somehow diminished because he had a "hall of fame QB". So mcnabb is a lock for the hall now? Well that is good news because if mcnabb is in then so will be steve mcnair. Have they not been very similar caliber players? Sure mcnabb has a greater chance to get there someday because he still has more time to win games, go to the playoffs and to maybe win a super bowl while we know the door may closed for steve but remember that steve's last good year came at age 30 and mcnabb turns 30 in november.

The point is this; mcnabb has not been any more a luxury to reid than mcnair has been to fisher. Now that mcnair is gone we look back at the kind of player he was his duo threat ability, playing while hurt etc and realize what a fine player he was. Jeff fisher had that man as his starting QB for 9 years. 9 years!

If mcnabb makes the hall it may be because he was able to play at a high level longer but it could also be because he plays for a better coach.

Mcnabb and reid 6 years together, 5 playoffs.

Mcnair and fisher 9 years together, 4 playoffs.

tide

Yes, Fisher had a bunch of players in their prime...which of them are Hall of Fame players?

My comment about Dungy is dumb? So Dungy having at least 5 Super Bowl caliber teams and yet failing to reach the Super Bowl even once (let alone win it) makes him a better coach? And because according to your argument, he did something that even Vince Lombardi didn't do...are you saying Dungy is a better coach? If you're not, then your point is pointless! You say he's better than Fisher and Lombardi because he did something they didn't, but then you'll tell me he's not better than Lombardi. I hope you see you nullified your own point.

Maybe you can explain to me how Sherman and Martz - according to your argument are MUCH superior coaches and should be Hall of Fame bound due to their superior playoff appearance percentage - lost their jobs and don't have new jobs as head coaches. Why do you suppose that is? Because you're the smartest guy on the planet and the NFL gm's are all stupid....or there is a serious flaw in your argument?

I didn't put McNabb in the Hall, but clearly Reid had a few coaching breakdowns in the Super Bowl (to give you an example of why I don't think he's a great coach). Did they go into a 2 minute and hurry up offense with 4 minutes left and down by 2 scores? No. Even in the last 2 minutes, they weren't hurrying up. Bad coaching my friend in the biggest game of his life. And if you look at their 3 previous NFC Championship losses, the mighty Reid was outcoached in all of them. You can certainly make the argument that Reid is as good as Fisher, but IMO I've seen way too many examples of him coaching poorly the more important the game AND with his best talent. Fisher has coached poorly when the team has been totally outmanned and outgunned.

There are MANY more coaches more accomplished than Fisher? Please list your criteria. If you're going by playoff appearance percentage, there are many more accomplished than Vince Lombardi...but that's not gonna make me agree with you either!

And try and read a post before responding so you don't continually misquote me. Fisher has one subpar coordinator - not 2! Try to keep that in mind.

Gut

Gut going to extremes.....

Typical for a desperate man losing an arguement,,,,,,badly. Not only has gut gone down the list of all the leagues top coaches bashing each one and dissing all they have accomplished but now he hits a new low; lies.

Where did i say that mike martz and mike sherman are hall of fame coaches? Where did i say they were superior to jeff fisher? My entire thesis has been that jeff fisher is not superior to them.

Gut then lies again by saying that he never referred to mcnabb as a hall of famer. Well the quote was this..."andy reid had a hall of fame QB." Maybe he really was talking about aj feeley.:sad2:

Another lie, gut claims i said that dungy was better than lombardi. Again i never said that.

The problem with gut's logic and reasoning is that even had tony dungy won a couple of super bowls gut would just blow it off saying he had great talent.

Gut's motto? Bash success, defend mediocrity.

tide...

First, I'll respond to your insults. Then, I'll give you a single question to answer. If you can't answer them, don't bother posting because you avoid the actual debate of the argument...so just listening to you insult me is not really fruitful to a discussion. And frankly, continually insulting someone IS what people do when they have no argument.

If I'm losing the argument, how come you never answer the points I make that destroy your point? You'll notice I address every point you make. You avoid most of the points I make. If you think that that means you're winning...enjoy your own point of view.

I haven't 'bashed' any coaches throughout the league. Sherman and Martz, despite a high playoff percentage and a lot of wins, are apparently not considered great coaches by the NFL since they both lost their jobs and neither was hired again despite their records or percentage of playoff appearances. Is that me bashing them? Or is that reality?

I didn't lie about McNabb. Perhaps you don't understand what I write so I'll try and clarify for you. I think McNabb is a Hall of Fame cailber QB and when all is said and done, I think he'll get in if he stays healthy. So I think Reid has a Hall of Fame QB but I said I didn't put him in the Hall (meaning it's not established whether he'll be considered a Hall of Fame QB yet - like a Peyton Manning). To put it perspective, I think Reid has had more talent on his teams than Fisher - but you could argue he didn't. But even if he didn't, I pointed out my reasoning for why I don't consider him as good a coach.

The whole point of your argument is that Sherman and Martz are as good or better than Fisher because of their playoff appearance %. Based on that, they are also as good as the best Football coach of alltime...vince lombardi. But I hope you don't think that so your whole argument has been demolished by you. Or maybe I'm wrong...maybe you DO think they are as good as Lombardi.

Yes, you never said Dungy was better than Lombardi, but you imply it in your argument. If Dungy has accomplished something that Fisher and Lombardi haven't...and that's your sole reasoning for Dungy being as good or better than Fisher, then that must also make him as good or better than Lombardi.

It's very simple...either you say Dungy, Sherman and Martz are as good as Lombardi to validate your argument or you say they are NOT and destroy your argument. Which is it?

Gut

Oy Vei!

Well this sure is an ugly thread. You guys were all born in the late nineties, right?:kiss:

1890's maybe.