Patrick Willis

Smith wouldn't command anywhere near what Freeney would want. Also, Freeney is a liability against the run. Smith is not Freeney but he might very well be worth what he is asking and possibly a better value than Freeney IMO. We need to stop the run as much as we need to rush the QB.

Freeney is going to get the franchise tag anyway but even if he was not his price tag would be well over 10 mil per year. Possibly around 15 mil. Smith might be someone we could get for 1/3 that amount.

 

he would probably get 1/3 of the sacks too. most of the time you get what you pay for.

 

Funny. Freeney had 5.5 sacks this year and Smith had 7.5.
The Colts also had one of the most pathetic run defenses in the league.

 

Come on...

So who's the better pass rusher, Freeney with his 5.5 sacks or Smith with his 7.5 sacks?

If you watch both players you'll notice 2 things right away. Few people double team Smith and he still doesn't get 10+ sacks. Freeney on the other hand, is frequently double teamed and still gets a lot more pressure on the QB and usually, a lot of sacks. This year he was mostly double teamed. Even against us he had a few pressures while double teamed that would have been sacks if not for VY's athleticism. You don't see that with Smith.

Against the run, Freeney is not a liability. The Colts scheme is a liability. If the coach tells his ends to rush up the field and rush the passer first, that's the scheme. Notice that when they play more 8 man fronts to stop the run and he's supposed to control a gap (instead of rush the passer blindly), people aren't running him over. Quite the contrary, they use his speed to keep contain and sometimes to slant or shoot a gap. Notice that in the playoffs with the same personel, they are pretty stout against the run. What does that tell you about the cause(s) of their poor run D? The media points out Sanders like him not being there has anything to do with the poor tackling by various players in the back 7 (outside of the one saftey replacing him). It is a myth that undersized DE's can't hold up vs the run. If that were so, how come we haven't been running over Freeney and pancaking him since he's been with the Colts?

With a change to his responsibilities (he won't be playing in the same scheme, right?), he'll be at least solid against the run just as an undersized Jason Taylor is solid against the run. And with his speed, he'll make a lot of takles in pursuit most other DE's don't and can't make (remember Kearse making tackles all over the field?). Outside of Julius Peppers, he might be the best DE in the game. He is worth the money as long as we can afford it and frontload his contract so he'll get cheaper every year, not more expensive. He'd improve our pass rush (a lot since people won't be able to double KVB as much as they did last year) which helps our secondary and he'll actually improve the run D over a LaBoy who was lost on containment concepts and is also undersized.

If we're gonna be stuck with Schwartz and his predominant zone scheme behind a 4 man rush, we better have an elite pass rusher and Freeney is IT!

I believe the Colts don't have a lot of cap room in the off-season so they may not be able to franchise him. If the Colts want to keep their window of opportunity open longer, they need to let Freeney go.

Anyone signed in this offseason will be overpaid by current NFL standards because there may be a few elite players and a lot of teams with cap room to pump up the price. Overpaying for an elite player can be well worth it. Overpaying for a solid player is not. Smith is a very solid player but we can't afford to pay solid players 5mil a year.

Gut

 

come on soxcat, you're smarter than that. you know one year does not tell the whole story.

freeney 56.5 sacks in 5 years 11.3 per year
smith 41.5 sacks in 6 years 6.91 per year

they have been pretty equal in rushing defense throughout their careers.

i couldnt find the the 2001 season.
bengals: 2002 125.4, 2003 138, 2004 128.9, 2005 117.6, 2006 116.4, average 125.26

colts: 2002 127.2, 2003 128.1, 2004 129.4, 2005 109.5, 2006 173.0, average 133.44

that one horrible year really scewed the colts' and freeney's stats too.

 

I wasn't in my wildest dreams claiming SMith was a better pass rusher, I just simply pointed out the lunacy of saying we would get 1/3 fewer sacks from Smith. Freeney does have 32.5 sacks the last three years. Smith has 21.5.
Freeney is better at rushing the passer than Smith but is 11 more sacks over three years worth an extra 10 mil a year?

Also, only a delusional football fan would try as Gut did, and yourself as well, try to prove that Freeney is a decent run stopper. That is his weakness. He only had 29 total tackles last year, 34 the year before. Smith on the other hand is very stout against the run. When Freeney focuses on closing the inside gap he basically neutralizes his pass rush ability.

Again, the question isn't if Freeney is the better RDE, the question is would we be better off with Smith and whoever else we could sign with the money we save by not throwing the bank at Freeney.

Now, approach the argument from the standpoint that Freeney is franchised. Now who do you go after at DE in FA?

 

i wasnt the one who threw out run defense stats for one year. you were the one who says smith is a better run player, so therefore the bengals run defense is better, when the colts and bengals have been pretty equal over the past 5 years.

so even if freeney is more of a liability against the run than smith, it was about a 6 yard liability per game.

 

no one. i grab a corner and draft a DE(trade up for jamaal anderson).

 

Flawed logic.....

Do you think a pass rusher is ONLY quantified by the # of sacks he gets? I saw a game where Freeney had about 5 QB pressures and no sacks. 4 of the QB pressures led to incompletions cause the QB was basically trying to not take a sack. Elite pass rushers get several QB pressures. Avg ones don't.

Elite pass rushers are also capable of having many multi-sack games. Avg pass rusher typically don't....or they might have a game here or there when matched up against a backup tackle for example.

If I remember correctly, when the Colts played against the Bengals, Freeney had I think 4 QB pressures and 3 of them were sacks. Smith had 2 QB pressures. The difference in QB pressure was that if the QB didn't get rid of the ball, Freeney sacks you. With Smith's pressures, he got near the QB, but would NOT have sacked him.

The flip side is run defense. I didn't look up Smith's tackle #'s to know he's good at run D, I watched several of his games and saw he holds up well at the point of attack, knows his contain assignments, sheds, pursues and tackles well.

Freeney on the other hand, doesn't play in a defense with the same responsibilities....and you should know that. In their base sets, he and Mathis are only to rush the pass rusher and tackle the rb on the way if they meet him or see him. His responsibilities would change if he were on the Titans and asked to play the run more. So how do we know he can do it?

We haven't been able to run over him with much success despite the fact that he's undersized and not playing the run. Secondly, when they alter the front 7 responsibilities to stop the run (they bring up Sanders and everyone plays a 1 gap), they've been quite excellent in the playoffs. If Freeney was a liability, how come Larry Johnson didn't run over him consistently?

Furthermore, your assertion that him slanting inside negates his pass rush? Perhaps you need to watch Freeney a bit more closely. Freeney gets most of his sacks from an inside rush...specifically his dominant spin move. But he's also so quick that an inside slanting charge frequently gets pressure or forces a double team (which frees up a DT or blitzer or backside DE to get the pressure or sack). However, this is a choice of the Colts to play 1 gap when they bring sanders up and slant 3 of the DL one way and on DE the other way. We don't really do that so you wouldn't have to worry about it anyway.

If Freeney was franchised, I would still enquire about what it'd take in a trade to get him. The Colts will be able to franchise him, but it'll hurt them. And Freeney would be smarter to test free agency. He knows the he's the most dominant DE to hit the market since Reggie White and with every team having cap room, he'll be SHOWN THE MONEY!!!

If Freeney was a no go, I'd enquire about the others but unless someone was willing to play for a reasonable contract, forget it. I wouldn't overpay for a solid player at any position in free agency. That's how you start chewing up uneccessary cap space without the production.

It's a lot easier to draft a good run stopping DE than a good pass rushing DE.

However, I'd probably end up going hard for Asante Samuel with Clements as a backup plan and then look for some other players that would improve this team...like a Steinbach at OG or a Coleman at DT and see who else shakes loose from the tree.

Gut

 

Bongo...

How come everyone brings up Dewan....they are two different players so that doesn't fly. Just as Palmer's younger brother isn't gonna get drafted any higher because Carson's an excellent QB. Didn't help Vick, did it?

Landry runs well, is smart and a good player....but so are a lot of guys in college. He moved well in the game but a few things really bothered me.

First, every tackle he made he went high. That's fine for college when you're a good player generally tackling avg players....but you will have a lot of your tackles broken that way in the NFL.

Second, on that deep pass down the left sideline for a TD, he didn't play the ball OR the WR. He ran over there and got out of the way......WHY??? He could have charged the ball and made a play on it, but usually when your CB is slightly behind and going for the ball, you just go knock out the WR. He didn't.

Third, I don't like missed tackles...especially when you're blitzing the perfect play (a reverse to your side) and should get a big negative play on it and he didn't even get him down (and it's not like Notre Dame's WR are all that fast or elusive). I did like that after missing the tackle, he got back up and hustled to the ball (knocking two of his teammates and the pile out of bounds).

I didn't look to me like he's comfortable in deep zones where he needs to make a break on the ball. I think he's better suited to playing SS in the NFL. While Weiss will credit him in coverage, it's not like LSU has a weak front 7! They get a ton of pressure when they blitz....and not just because Landry's in coverage. They have a strong defensive team! And he should be good in run support, he plays near the box a lot and when he doesn't, LSU covers their gaps well and Landry hustles to the ball well. Again, his tackling makes me nervous though.

Then I think about what I would have seen if Reggie Nelson were playing instead of Landry....the deep passes would have been picked off or incomplete as Nelson would have laid out the WR. Nelson also goes low on his tackles (which can be good and bad).

And BTW, they took a liking to showing a clip of LSU vs Florida where Bowe ran a deep slant (post) and Nelson laid into him as the ball got there and it popped out for an INT. Curious that they 'blamed' Bowe for not catching it but didn't give Nelson credit for the hit.

Fourth, the INT was a gift INT so that's not much of an argument.

Gut