On paper it's fine. The production is awful, but we do have some good players who fail to live up to their potential. Uh... yes? When the Patriots lose Tom Brady they will no longer be elite. Years from now when Green Bay looks like a completely different team they will no longer be elite. The Titans were elite a decade or so ago and now they aren't. Yes, being elite is a variable. You're brilliant. I mean, we won't know for sure who the "elite teams" were this year until the season is over. But judging from last season and what we've seen this season, I think one can make some (changing) stabs at who is elite and who isn't. Sounds awfully like you're retarded. First off, let's look at your statement: "When the Cows beat them they aren't elite, but when no one else beats them, they are." Logically, what the hell are you saying? We have the assumption of the Cows beating someone implying that they aren't elite, but then you say "but" and say "when no one else beats them". Are you saying that if a team didn't get beat by the Cows and didn't get beaten by anyone else they are elite? I think by anybody's logic an undefeated team would be elite. Or maybe you're trying to say that a one-loss team who only lost one game to the Cows isn't elite. I'm not saying that a one-loss team that only lost a game to the Cows isn't elite. I gave valid reasons for why the Steelers, Bengals, and Falcons of last season were not elite teams. The Steelers looked awful early on, and the week before they played the Cows they escaped the Colts by 3 points. The Falcons were up and down. The Bengals weren't that great, but they did get into the playoffs due to the horrible AFC. And even looking back, the Falcons were murdered in the playoffs and the Steelers got beat by Tim Tebow. How elite could they have been that year? Pretty badly is beating them by one touchdown (which came down to the last play, which failed because of a mistake on Jones IIRC) and beating them by 1 point (Bengals)? Oh, and they beat the Bengals in the playoffs. At home. With the Bengals' two best players being rookies. Right-O. I think you should stay away from the word logic and just keep focusing on trying to figure out which shaped-blocks go into which shaped-holes. Logic is a concept that is obviously far beyond you. If you must know, IMO the "elite teams" so far are: San Fran, Green Bay, Falcons I'm iffy on: Patriots, Ravens, and Giants. Outside of that, no one comes to mind that I would say is "elite".