Mike Mayock top 20 and position rankings..

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by RollTide, Apr 11, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

    8,052
    2,249
    669
    It's all in good fun! :)

    Well, the stats you chose make it seem like Jerry and Hood are equals when if you account for solo tackles and more importantly...# of games, Jerry is a significantly better player and IMPROVING while Hood's production has flatlined.

    In '07, he had 25 solo tackles, 4 sacks, and 12 tackles for loss as a part time player and backup (and he couldn't beat out who?). As a full time starter (more playing time), he had 34 solo tackles, 15.5 tackles for loss and only 3 sacks. If you factor in playing time, he produced less per play on the field in '08 than he did in '07. Flat lined production for playing time...and he was given the HUGE advantage of getting moved around to give him his best mismatch chances in '08. He won't get that advantage on an NFL team.

    More importantly, he doesn't sack the QB. I would not take a run stopping LDE to hold up against the run in rnd 1 and expecting him to bulk up nearly 30 lbs is iffy at best.

    Gut
     
  2. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    23,252
    3,351
    1,059
    Where did that come from? I never said that he would be a 280lb DE who could move inside and help out ala kevin carter. I never said he would be 300 lbs.
     
  3. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    23,252
    3,351
    1,059
    1.5 sacks in the senior bowl 1/3 game against an OT who will be drafted in the 2nd rd.
     
  4. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    23,252
    3,351
    1,059
    Is larry english a better prospect gut?
     
  5. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

    8,052
    2,249
    669
    Well...

    I'm glad you never said it because I never said that you said that. lol

    Well...are you projecting him to be a run stopping LDE or a guy who needs to bulk up and get stronger to play DT full time? What weight do you think he'd need to be at to be an effective 3 down DT?

    Gut
     
  6. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

    8,052
    2,249
    669
    Wow!!!

    1.5 sacks in ONE game versus good competition....sure fire top 5 pick!!!

    No thanks! Too many arguments against him and not too much for him.

    Gut
     
  7. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

    8,052
    2,249
    669
    Well...

    I rate prospects on what I think they project to best. For example, I think Ayers projects best to a run stopping LDE who can move inside on 3rd and long and help on the pass rush a bit. For that type of player, I'd give a 2nd rnd grade. Ayers has some additional negatives (only one year starter - so you have to question his desire, doesn't really sack the QB much from the DE spot, has mediocre athleticism, was given the freedom to exploit mismatches in '08...an advantage he won't have in the NFL, has flatlined production). He looked very good in the Senior Bowl so I'd say his upside is mid-late 2nd rnd value. On my board, he's a late 2nd to early 3rd rnd player.

    If you project Ayers as an OLB in a 3-4 D, I think you're asking for trouble. If you project him as a RDE in a 3-4 D, he might be GOOD if he can add 20lbs to his frame...which won't happen overnight. I think he has more upside to a 3-4 D than a 4-3 D unless you put a lot of stock in a run stopping LDE.

    English has the production in college, but against lower competition. In a way, he's the opposite of Ayers. Ayers is good at taking on a blocker and shedding...English is not a good run defender. Ayers is not much of a pass rusher while English is a pretty good pass rusher. The big problem with English is where do you play him. He hasn't really covered as a DE so projecting him to a 3-4 olb can be iffy. While his combine 40 isn't good, he ran much better at his pro day. However, he was on astroturf. However, he plays a lot faster than his timed speed and is a natural player. He is also a high urgency player. I think he projects best as a 3-4 OLB and primarily in a pass rush role until (if) he can learn how to cover (better). He alleviated some fears his production against lower competition can't translate in the Senior Bowl...but he's still very much a project. For me, he's a late 2nd to mid 3rd rnd pick because he can rush the passer, plays a lot better than his timed #'s, his a high urgency player and has upside as a complete OLB who can rush the passer...especially if he can go to a team that knows how to train OLB's...like NE, Pitt, SD. If I'm the Titans, I don't want him. He's more of a project as a 4-3 outside LB and we need much more athletic LB's...preferably guys who already have some coverage skills and can stop the run...not rush the QB. We don't rush our OLB's much.

    So they are relatively equal though English is more of a boom/bust player and if you're a 4-3 team, he's probably not even worth a 3rd rnd pick!

    Gut
     
  8. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    23,252
    3,351
    1,059
    Always with the drama like olivia soprano.

    We are picking 30th i think he is a great pick at 30.

    His role would be similar to kevin carter when he was here. I'm looking for guys to improve our run defense since we might not ever get another guy like AH.

    The biggest argument against drafting a guy like ayers is that jones might eventually be moved outside and take that role. He has not been able to add weight and struggled just to keep his weight at 270 during the season.

    I would gladly take peria or hood with that pick..
     
  9. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

    8,052
    2,249
    669
    Well...

    Except Kevin Carter could stop the run AND get you 10 sacks in a season. Ayers can't even do that in college given every advantage.

    Also consider KVB and Kearse are very good run defenders so it's not like we are currently lacking in DE's who can stop the run and Ayers can't help stop the run on the inside at his current weight.

    So we already spent a 2nd rnd pick on this type of player. I don't think it's good value or a good idea to do the same with a first rnd pick when neither player is really a pass rusher.

    Jerry - Yes. Hood - No. Although I could see the Titans taking Hood there. He at least has the athleticism for better upside in the Pros with good coaching.

    Gut
     
  10. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

    23,252
    3,351
    1,059
    Kevin carter averaged 7.4 sacks a season in his career. In one year he only had 2.

    And no KVB is not a good run defender. Not in my opinion. He's only average. He will also be a 31 year old FA next year and kearse and even older Fa. You don't draft guys for one year do you?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  • Welcome to goTitans.com

    Established in 2000, goTitans.com is the place for Tennessee Titans fans to talk Titans. Our roots go back to the Tennessee Oilers Fan Page in 1997 and we currently have 4,000 diehard members with 1.5 million messages. To find out about advertising opportunities, contact TitanJeff.
  • The Tip Jar

    For those of you interested in helping the cause, we offer The Tip Jar. For $2 a month, you can become a subscriber and enjoy goTitans.com without ads.

    Hit the Tip Jar