McNair vs Manning

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by MsTitan, Jan 17, 2006.

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  1. MsTitan

    MsTitan Camp Fodder

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    To give McNair credit, no one expected us to make it to the playoffs during most of those years. We did not have great teams. Yet we excelled despite. Manning situation is different. His teams have been built around him and for him. He is suppose to win, should win but yet he fails. McNair isn't suppose to win, can't win but does anyway.
  2. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Mstitan...

    There lies the whole problem. This bizzare notion that manning is supposed to win and mcnair is not. What manning was given some secret nfl decoder ring and steve mcnair didn't get one? Manning was drafted on the colts because they were the worst team in football in 1997. He comes onto a 3-13 team and has to start right away as a rookie. How is that the lap of luxury? Yet steve mcnair became the full time starting QB in his third season on a team that was 8-8 the previous 2 seasons.

    You say they built a team around and for manning. Oh? Then how come 2/3 of their draft choices the last 6 years are on the defensive side of the ball? 3 of their last 5 first rd picks were on defense. They used a second rd pick in successive years for safeties.(doss, sanders)

    Why would you expect steve mcnair not to win if he is better than a future hall of fame QB? Yes like it or not manning will be in the hall of fame some day.

    The fact we are even having this discussion is bizarre to say the least. The titans are one of the absolute worst teams in football over the last 2 seasons. Steve mcnair missed half his starts in 2004 and played poorly when he did start. His play this year was no better than mediocre. Manning was the mvp in 2004 and second in the mvp in 2005 on a team that went 26-6 the last 2 years. It's not even debatable.

    I don't mean to pick on you alone but i find this whole thing about steve mcnair being portrayed as some impoverished underdog offensive.
  3. MadAboutMcNair

    MadAboutMcNair Starter

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    Hello again RollTide. This has been more fun than i thought. I definitely admire your will to argue. I didn't think this would go to 5 pages.

    Strong arguments by soxcat as well. I think Steve would be healthy for a playoff game next year (optimism,optimism), but as a self admitted homer I can understand your differing opinion. My reason for thinking he could play in a playoff game doesn't have to do with reason as much as determination. Steve is one of the most determined individuals this city has ever seen. That's one reason why I love him. He always has managed to play in the playoffs in the past.
    As far as the racism cry. He IS pale. So am I. Why can't I say he is funny looking? I also called him 5-headed, am I now guilty of shapism as well?
  4. MadAboutMcNair

    MadAboutMcNair Starter

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    Rolltide, did you like Manning this much in college?
  5. SEC 330 BIPOLAR

    SEC 330 BIPOLAR jive turkey

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    Mr. Analyst loves Peyton Manning. Don't you know that UT is his second favorite college team of all-time? Strange isn't it?
  6. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Mad...

    It's not about emotionalism or what team a guy plays for or what color someone is or the circumstances of someones birth. It's the simple logical analysis of which player is better. If you asked me who i liked more i would say steve mcnair. But that doesn't mean i'm going to be intellectually dishonest and say he is better.

    As for manning in college? I thought he was one of the best college QBs of all time. I admired his decision to stay an extra year and thought he was absolutely robbed of the heisman trophy. As for his play in big games then? I thought he did fine. Most games in the sec are big games and he won the over whelming majority of them including big games against bama and georgia.. He also won 2 bowl games.

    What i heartily disagree with is this notion that manning was somehow given the golden key to automatic success while mcnair was somehow forced to live in the impoverished world of tennessee titan football. Nobody would have considered marvin harrison an elite WR until manning's second season. Harrison's first 1000 yard season came when manning emgerged as a pro bowl QB in 1999. And he was drafted to a 3-13 team. The colts have the same salary cap the titans do, have to play by the same same rules the titans play by.
  7. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    SEC bipolar...

    Why would any UT fan hate peyton manning?

    UT's record in manning last three years there.
    11-1
    10-2
    11-2


    Yeah lot's of reason for hate.:sad2:
  8. MsTitan

    MsTitan Camp Fodder

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    Rolltide,
    The past two seasons are not part of this part of the discussion. Titans being the worst team, the Colts drafting defensive players. That is what the last reply was about. I am not saying they are not important but I was responding to you regarding playoff outcomes. So I am comparing McNair when the Titans were playoff contenders vs the Colts. When we were playoff bound nobody expected the Titans to win because on paper we weren't the better team. The year we went the SB, no one expected that. Manning and the Colts were favorites in the game we played at Indy, on teh road. That was Mannings first playoff choke. The Colts were supposed to win but didn't. We were supposed to lose but McNair and the troops won. No way we could beat the Jags three times in one season with the 3rd time in the AFC Champtionship on the road. Everyone said we would lose but McNair said otherwise. We had several other playoff games in the years to come. We won a few. I remember beating Pittsburgh even though we didn't have a chance. Losing by 3 points to the Pats even though we weren't even suppose to show up.
    Then you have the Colts. Last season, Manning broke the friggin record for touchdown receptions but can't score a touchdown in an entire game. People may have expected the Pats to win but they expected the Colts to make it interesting. No Show. This season, you win your first 13 games. Have to play the Steelers, a team you demolished earlier in the season. They were huge favorites. No one gave the Steelers a chance. Indy had one of the best Ds and the best QB in the history of football (sarcasm). Hell yes, they were suppose to win. But didn't.
    McNair took us to the superbowl with Devein Dyson as his #1 receiver and I would have to think real hard to come up with others. Mason was returning kicks. Do you see my point. McNair wins in spite up. Manning just loses when it matters.

    Just my two cents.
  9. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Ms titan...

    What should we care about who is supposed to win? That is meaningless to me. The bottom line is getting to the playoffs in the first place and winning there and if a team is good enough to get the they are good enough to win. Your point has no merit to me.

    This discussion as i understand it is who the better player is now. Not who was better in the playoff when they were expected to win. You want to refine the discussion down to almost nothing go ahead. But when we discuss who the better player is now we are talking about steve mcnair's last 22 starts the last 2 seasons, we are talking about games missed due to injury and we are talking about who has been better in the regular season not just the playoffs. You have to get there in the first place. And when you talk about winning you talk about the whole team not just who the wide receivers were.

    You want to dwell on the 99 team that made the super bowl. Ok that playoff run accounts for 60% of steve mcnair's playoff victories. In the 2 playoff wins vs the bills and colts steve mcnair supplied our offense with 121 yards a game running and passing. So what? I'm not bashing him it's just that his contributions were not the primary reason we won. We beat the bills because our defense held them to 16 points and we had the miracle kick return. We beat the colts with defense and eddie george. And i don't think the cupboard was bare on offense either. You had a pretty good offensive line that had hopkins in his prime, jon runyan and bruce matthews. You had a pro bowl runningback and a pro bowl caliber tight end and another good TE in harris. In addition to dyson(pre knee injury) you had yancy thigpen who did start 10 games and had 38 catches.
  10. KamikaZ

    KamikaZ Ex-Hall of Famer

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    It doesn't matter what Roll says (no matter how right and concrete his facts are). People are gonna let homerism take over and because they have a personal dislike for Manning, let that shroud reason.


    I'm shocked this discussion is still going on honestly. :sad2:
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