Marcus Mariota Through 20 Games

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by UnknownHinson, Nov 11, 2016.

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  1. GrayGhost1951

    GrayGhost1951 Starter

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    What did he do? He went to the playoffs 4 times, including a Super Bowl appearance. He was named All Pro two times. But you know more than anyone. Bring up some stupid name like a kid. When MM passes for 41,000, get back to me. Average.....lmao.
     
  2. UnknownHinson

    UnknownHinson Starter

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    That's really not a fair claim to make, IMO. Most of the guys on this list were on decent teams when they started playing. Brady had a RB his first playing season named Antowain Smith, who ran for 1130 yds(7th in league) and 12 tds(2nd in league) when the league leaders ran for 1550 and 14 tds. He also had the last respectable year of Troy Brown's career with 1200 yards receiving. His defense was also 8th in total yards and 5th in total points.

    Lets move on to Rivers. His first starting season, he had the undisputed No. 1 RB in the league in LaDainian Tomlinson, who rushed for 1800 yards and 28 TDs (still an NFL Record). His defense finished 10th in yards allowed and 4th in TDs allowed.

    Now Luck, the clear anomaly... HE had terrible rushers, with Vick Ballard leading his time with 800 yards. And he had a defense ranked 20th in yards and 23rd in points. However, he did have future hall of famer Reggie Wayne catching passes, who totaled 1355 yards, 3rd in the league. Luck was forced to overcome these deficiencies, and did so for the most part. Although he did throw for the most yards among this list, he did so while compiling the worst Passer Rating on this list as well.

    Matt Ryan, during his rookie season and first 16 games, also had an excellent rusher behind him. Michael Turner was 2nd in the league in both yards and touchdowns with 1699 Yards and 17 TDs. He also had Roddy White who finished 2nd in the league with 1382 yards. His defense was 23rd in total yards allowed and 11th in points allowed.

    Russell Wilson, during his rookie season and first 16 games, again, an excellent rusher(Noticing a pattern here?). Marshawn Lynch finished the season 3rd in total yards with 1590 and 4th in TDs with 11. The Seahawks defense was also 4th in total yards allowed and 1st in points allowed.

    Cam Newton. Behind Cam Newton in the backfield during his rookie season was the two-headed beast. DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart gained 836 and 761 yards, respectively. This for a total of 1597 yards, which would put their combined efforts as the 2nd best in the league, 6 yards behind the leader. The Panthers had an atrocious defense, finishing lower than 25th in both categories. However, it is important to remember that Newton had the same record as Mariota through 20 games, at 7W-13L.

    Aaron Rodgers was backed by Ryan Grant during his first playing season. Ryan Grant rushed for 1200 yards and finished 9th in the NFL on the ground, while Brandon Jackson rushed for another 250 as the spell HB. Combining the yards, they would have been at 5th on the rushing list for that season. The Packers Defense finished 20th in total yards, and 22nd in points. Donald Driver also went for 1000.

    Finally, we have Derek Carr. We all remember how this one happened, right? The Raiders had a pretty horrible run game in 2014, with McFadden and Murray gaining 534 and 424 yards, respectively. Even if totaled together, they would still rank 14th in rushing yards. The Raiders Defense was 21st in yards and 32nd in points that year.


    Sooo, if we look at all of these QBs together, we can see that(excluding mariota) 6 of the 8 had a runningback (or combination, in the case of the Panthers) who finished the season in the top 10 in total rushing yards. Four of those six had rushers who finished the season in the Top 5. Three of the eight QBs had defenses ranked in the Top 10 for their season. The only people who didn't have the luxury of a successful run game OR defense were Luck and Carr. Mariota outperformed or matched Carr in every stat except for fumbles, of which Mariota has 4 more.

    In short, there are too many convoluted variables involved to come to a clear conclusion, but you can see that not many of these guys were succeeding on their own against all odds. I'm not saying that Mariota is either.

    Again, you are going to play some good and bad defenses every year. Ridiculous to assume that the Titans have played worse ones without doing some research. And the research that I did do on the Patriots ended up being very similar to the defenses that Mariota has played so far. Also, most guys on this list had an early fumbling problem (Brady, Rivers, Luck, Rodgers, Carr), many of which significantly declined in their 3rd+ season of playing (Brady, Rivers, Rodgers).
     
    #42 UnknownHinson, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
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  3. Rwill

    Rwill Pro Bowler

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    Those stats look a lot like my first 20 starts.

    Signed,
    Tony Romo
     
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  4. Ontario Titan

    Ontario Titan Pro Bowler

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    Pro Bowls ok lol...good measure of his greatness there. VY went to a Pro Bowl.
    1996/7 - Collins rookie year he went as with Favre, Aikman, SYoung.
    2008/9- As a Titan he went because Favre backed out.


    Trent Dilfer won a SB.

    If you like Collins go ahead that's your prerogative. I didn't like him.
    The KFC name has been around for years btw, again for his boneheaded play while he was a Titan

    It took KFC what 17 years to pass for 41000 yds, you won't be around IF it takes Mariota that long.
    I hope a QBs career isn't based on yards and PBs
     
    #44 Ontario Titan, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
  5. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    If the premise of this thread is that, because Mariota's numbers after 20 games is better than most of these top QBs so he's going to be a top QB, I just think it's flawed logic.

    The key thing for me is that Mariota has to beat better defenses because that's what'll have to happen to win a playoff game and eventually challenge to be a contender.

    And all the guys you list, except Carr, have proven they can play at a high level in a playoff setting. That's the true mark of a quality QB, IMO.

    Just look at his passer rating against any team with a winning record this season:

    Vikings - 86.5
    Lions - 102.8
    Raiders - 46.8
    Texans - 54.1

    Decent game against the Vikes but the turnovers killed them. The Lions game was his best effort among these teams and a quality win on the road though the Lions had a losing record at the time.

    Go back to '15 and you get more of the same.

    We can hope Mariota takes that step soon by improving his ball security and playing better against tougher defenses. We'll see when they play the Chiefs and Broncos soon.

    Kuharsky put this out today:
    Marcus Mariota's turnovers concerning, but great QBs had same issue - Tennessee Titans Blog- ESPN

    And he lists a bunch of top QBs who experienced a lot of turnovers early in their career who went on to great careers. Meaning, there's hope for any young QB who turns over the ball a lot.

    What I find flawed in this article is that even more QBs who turn over the ball a lot early in their careers ended up mediocre (or worse).
     
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  6. GrayGhost1951

    GrayGhost1951 Starter

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    He wasn't a Titan for that many years. He was brought in a few weeks before the opener when they cut Volek loose. Not really fair to him at all. VY was an alternate and McNair gave him his spot. Dilfer was boring but effective. Sometimes that is all you need to win when you have a great defense. MM has had plenty of games like Dilfer with just over 200 yards passing. You somehow failed to mention four playoff appearances - didn't suit your agenda? You act as if going to a SB is no big deal. Very childish of you.
     
  7. Ontario Titan

    Ontario Titan Pro Bowler

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    Lol..you're the one to talk about fitting agendas.
    You mentioned his 2 PB appearances, I simply pointed out that he only went to the last one because Favre backed out, same as you pointed out about VY.

    As far as playoff appearances, 32 QBs a year make the playoffs. You failed to mention Collins career W/L record...didn't fit your agenda?
    Imo Collins was an average QB. If you want to say otherwise go ahead but calling someone childish because they disagree with you is....well childish?
     
  8. UnknownHinson

    UnknownHinson Starter

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    I agree with much of what you say. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Mariota has yet proven he has what it takes to be as good as those perennial playoff guys (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson). But what he has shown is encouraging. I simply made this thread to give some counterbalance to the narrative that Mariota has performed far worse than elite QBs do during their first 20 games. Stats alone aren't going to tell you if someone is elite or not, and beating up on bad defenses doesn't mean you can win when it matters, I agree.

    I looked at a lot of individual game lines for those QBs when putting this stuff together, and they all had some really bad games from time to time. Being an elite QB doesn't mean you always play at that level. I seem to remember Russell Wilson throwing 4 interceptions and fumbling in the playoffs vs. a Packers defense that was far from elite. But his defense kept him in the game and his run game exploded, he won the game, and no one ever talks about it when evaluating RW. Peyton Manning played the worst game of his life in a super bowl, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton are having abysmal 2016s by comparison... Peyton Manning, Joe Namath, Favre, Warren Moon(multiple times), Matt Ryan, Drew Brees, Dan Fouts, and Dan Marino all have thrown 5 or 6 interceptions in a single game. Can you imagine what we would think about Mariota if he threw 6 interceptions in one game? Tom Brady has thrown 4 in a single game six different times and lost all but one of them by 10 points or less (the other game was a 31-0 romp). Even elite QBs lose the game for their team sometimes.

    Mariota has a lot to prove yet, I just think we need to relax and let him show us what he can do.

    [​IMG]
     
    #48 UnknownHinson, Nov 12, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
  9. RTH

    RTH Meh...

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    Listening to Dan Patrick the other day and mentioned QBs to the probowl... then promptly said "don't all QBs go to the probowl?"
     
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  10. Ontario Titan

    Ontario Titan Pro Bowler

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    When fans pick the spots, alot of it is a popularity contest, I have no use for it tbh
     
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