Is it CJ, the OL or Palmer?

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by TitanJeff, Sep 10, 2012.

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  1. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    I know we have a few threads already going on this topic but I just watched the game and think it's extremely short-sighted to blame any one thing for what we're seeing.

    Here's a breakdown of what I saw yesterday:

    On CJ's first carry, he had a huge amount of running room. Cook was being pushed inside towards the seam but had his man locked up. If CJ doesn't hesitate, I think he'd has a big gain. Instead, he steps back and tries to bounce it outside for a short gain. I put 100% of this on CJ. Even the commentators mention that CJ hesitated.

    CJ's second carry saw him gain 5. Nice carry. He still didn't look like he's showing much burst. He gets four on his next run. If he hit it harder on the play, I think he gets a first down. On the third down, he again has a lot of room to run and dances. If he hits it to his right, he has a big gain.

    All this is the first offensive series of the game. The OL was moving the Pats' DL. CJ is either limited or shut down because his either isn't hitting the seam or a lack of vision.

    One thing to consider is the Pats D held their zones so CJ was limited on the cutbacks. I think this is the way teams have defended him the last two seasons. Their LBs were very disciplined. Their DL was stout so they would hold their ground and eat space—allowing the LBs to make the play.

    On the second drive, Velasco was knocked back into the backfield as the Pats overloaded the box. On the next carry, CJ had a lot of room to run but needed to make one LB miss in the open field. He actually ran away from the LB into congestion instead of trying to make him miss.

    On his first reception, it looked like he caught it on his shoulder pad. I don't know why he turns his back totally on the defense instead of catching it in stride more often. He did have a better catch and run early in the second half and again in the fourth.

    Late in the first half, on their own 10, CJ was hit two yards in the backfield after running into the backside of the FB. On the draw, there was no where for him to go. The OL got no push. Same deal on the Reynaud carry for no gain. The Titans could not move the Pats DL interior after the first couple of drives.

    In the second half, the Titans almost totally abandoned the run. On his run late in the third quarter, both Pats DL are standing two yards in the Titans backfield . CJ stops and tries to take it wide and gets nothing. On the sprint draw to Reynaud, the OL gets a little push but the Pats LBs quickly shut it down. On the CJ carry from the three, Wilfork shot in and brought him down. Velasco was abused.

    So, by my count, CJ deserves the blame for the run game early but the OL was totally overmatched the second quarter. Once the Pats got their big lead, the Titans abandoned the run.

    Where does Palmer play into all this? No way CJ is going to do much trying to take the ball to the edge. They tried the draw and got little. I personally don't think it's the run calls but a total lack of execution by the OL, CJ or both.
     
    #1 TitanJeff, Sep 10, 2012
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  4. Alzarius

    Alzarius Pro Bowler Tip Jar Donor

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    I want to make this clear because I am tired of typing it in every thread.

    1. Our coaches are not clueless. They are well aware of the oline problems. Just because they say they are comfortable with who they have, doesnt make it true. I know some of you wanted to jump on Koppan (whatever his name was) one week before the season started and he was going to be a magic fix... but if he was that good, he would not have been released.

    Its painfully obvious they tried in the offseason. They stated, multiple times, that people needed to play better. We all know know who they were talking about, and so did amano and the guards. They brought in 2 centers, and signed a guard. To say that they had no clue that it was broken and didnt try to fix it, is just a stupid statement no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

    You cant fix an entire team in an offseason, or even two. We had and still have a lot of holes to fix. If it were so easy to fix them all, then every team would be in contention every season.

    No one is happy with the results, but dont put yourself in the special group who think they dont know and did nothing to fix it.


    2. Chris Johnson doesnt try anymore. Ill keep this short, if he wasnt trying, he wouldnt be trying to bounce it outside and cut and this and that to try to pick up more yards. The same exact people who say he doesnt try and he isnt trying anymore, are the same exact people who tell him to stop dancing and just go forward. Which is it, make up your minds. You cant be "not trying" when you are dancing all over the place trying to find yards. Im not arguing that he is not effective right now, I am saying he is trying and anyone who thinks otherwise, also belongs in that special group.

    CJ may very well be done, but we wont know until he has something to run through.


    3. CJ vs Oline

    Take a look at this



    Hell, im not going to dig through links, just google Chris Johnson highlights from anything but the past 2 seasons.

    If you look closely, you will see, what is known as holes. Its what the offense line does to create running lanes for a RB so they can run. Yes, I do see it necessary because of the play we have seen the past season, I think our fans have forgotten what holes are.

    The line is 10 yards down the field on many of those!! (hence a 2k yard season)

    Now look at his 2011 highlights



    Where are the holes? Its all CJ and his running ability. (aside from the last run, good hole there)

    You can argue that "well we need holes a mile wide for cj...." No, we dont. We just need to give him SOMETHING to run through.

    The scheme changed, and neither the oline nor CJ has done well adjusting. Its easier to dislike CJ because he doesnt know how to keep his stupid mouth shut, and Im right there with everyone when they want to bash him for that. I could post highlight reel after highlight reel showing this over and over again from the time they "dropped off"


    4. Fire Palmer. All of you who kept saying "this is a passing league, we need to pass better", now want to get rid of coaches because they are not running. Acknowledge what they have done in the passing game in one short season, and watch what the passing game does this season with a 2nd year QB who is starting for his first season. Im sure every team would love to have a high powered offense, but they dont. The coaches are working on it.

    Everyone needs to understand this. This is the season we are to find out if locker can be our guy, and to build this team. This is not the season where we go to the super bowl. Yes, its likely that we can squeeze into the playoffs, but then we face the best of the best. And teams like the Pats are simply a much better team than us, regardless of what you fooled yourselves into thinking before this past Sunday.

    Its the first game and we have many to go. This way though, whenever we see the same people complaining over and over about the same exact things, I can just bump this thread. (lets centralize the arguing. Theres a freaking CJ debate going on in the fire Bruce thread)

    I'd actually love if a few of the posters here would think with their heads and not their emotions, and post rational replies.
     
    #2 Alzarius, Sep 10, 2012
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  7. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    I agree it would be nice to try and get this debate into one thread. We have those who want to put 100% of this on CJ or 100% on the OL and it's a much more complex issue with no simple solutions.
     
    #3 TitanJeff, Sep 10, 2012
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  10. Laserjock

    Laserjock South Endzone Rocks! Staff

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    I actually somehow managed to NOT unfold into my emotional fan self this time and go blasting everything on pure emotion. Actually, I still find myself encouraged by what I saw out of Locker yesterday, despite the fumble and INT. He made some really nice throws and ran only when he needed.

    I do believe this is a shared blame on CJ for thinking too much and not just running and using his natural talents...I think that is what Reynaud does and why he appears at times to be more successful....he see the hole and runs THROUGH it ...not TO it like CJ appears to me to do.

    However, the Oline is bad...we do not have a guard that is athletic enough to pull on the end around runs...Pats did that on us several times and their guy was clearly all over it.

    If we cannot run any better than this, and I hope we see that change next week, then we are in for a very long season....heck might be in for one anyway.
     
    #4 Laserjock, Sep 10, 2012
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  13. RavensShallBurn

    RavensShallBurn Ruck the Favens

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    It's both.

    But I actually have to say the o-line is by far the bigger problem of the two. We really do need to fire Bruce IMO. It would be hard for Munchak to fire a friend, but I know he can do it.

    From 2008-2010 we have the best rushing offense in the league. From 2011-2012 we have the worst rushing offense. What changed? Bruce Matthews. In his two seasons with the Texans (2009, 2010) they ranked #30 and #7 in rushing. Now he turns the best rushing offense in the league into the worst, and the Texans become the best rushing offense.

    Get. The. Hell. Out. We love you Bruce, but your coaching/scheming must be horrible.

    Take over the o-line, Munch. You've proven yourself to be better than Bruce.
     
    #5 RavensShallBurn, Sep 10, 2012
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  16. RTH

    RTH Meh...

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    Sawdust mentioned it yesterday and I totally agree... time to take a long, hard look at Matthews.
    HOF player... not a HOF coach.

    Gotta lump him in there.
     
    #6 RTH, Sep 10, 2012
  19. JCBRAVE

    JCBRAVE goTitans 2019 Survivor Champion

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    The O-Line is soft, but C.J. is even soften, dump him.
     
    #7 JCBRAVE, Sep 10, 2012
  22. JCBRAVE

    JCBRAVE goTitans 2019 Survivor Champion

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    The O-Line isn't the biggest issue. Other RB's make do with the same crap blocking.
     
    #8 JCBRAVE, Sep 10, 2012
  25. RavensShallBurn

    RavensShallBurn Ruck the Favens

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    Other RBs on our team? Not really.

    Other RBs on other teams? Yes... Forte for example. Plus, that guy actually knows how to keep performing at a high level after getting paid.
     
    #9 RavensShallBurn, Sep 10, 2012
  28. pepsidriver24

    pepsidriver24 @snydzie

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    Our O-line is just not great. But I think it all stems from bad play calling. I have no doubts if the problem persists, Palmer will get axed. He is responsible for making what we have work.
     
    #10 pepsidriver24, Sep 10, 2012
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