How much credit does Schwartz deserve?

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by TitanJeff, Nov 22, 2006.

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How much credit does Schwartz deserve?

  1. 100%

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  2. 80-99%

    2 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. 60-79%

    2 vote(s)
    7.7%
  4. 40-59%

    8 vote(s)
    30.8%
  5. 20-39%

    3 vote(s)
    11.5%
  6. 1-19%

    3 vote(s)
    11.5%
  7. 0%

    7 vote(s)
    26.9%
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  1. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Could it be...

    Maybe fisher is taking a greater hand in the defense and schwartz doesn't deserve much credit at all?

    The average or median defense in the nfl gives up 325 yards and 21 points per game. In the last 2 weeks we have given up 338 and 17 points on average. We are still dead last in total defense and 29th in scoring defense.

    Can we wait until there is a 5-6 game run of decent defense before we have this kind of dicussion? It took titan(pope) jeff one game to canonize schwartz and proclaim that the last 40+ games were not his fault..:rolleyes:

    We are playing the run better and i'm wondering if sirmon playing his natural position is a major factor. He is a bigger more physical player than thornton and seems to have improved things there. In the meantime tulloch is an improvement on sirmon in the middle. Sirmon is a natural sam linebacker isn't he? The one fact that thornton was hurt and wasn't used on run downs has nothing to do with schwartz!

    Is schwartz responsible for our corners playing better? It was schwartz getting in pacman's face that is responsible for his recent spirited play? I doubt it.

    Fisher would be more responsible for getting haynesworth and pacman back to playing the way they should and improving the attitude of the defense. It looks like the way we handled those 2 situations worked..
    #11
  2. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Gut, gut, gut...

    You don't understand schwartz was part of our youth and rebuilding movement. Yes he struggled before but that was because he was too young and inexperienced. Starting with the eagle game the lights went on and now he is catching on. Wait until 2009 or 2010:eek: :eek: :eek: and he will be the best DC in the league!
    #12
  3. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    Once again, you put words in my mouth. Nothing new coming from you.

    Am I reading you correctly that you give 100% of the blame on Schwartz for the past 40 games?

    My comments on Schwartz is to point out the hypocracy. The members here proved it for me.

    Those polled here who feel Schwartz deserves 40% or more credit for a good performance is 53% and those who feel he is responsible (40% or more) for a bad performance is 85%.

    To further show the hypocrisy, 44% feel Schwartz is 80% or more the blame for a poor performance and only 17% give him the same credit for a good performance.

    26% give Schwartz no credit for a good performance.

    No doubt you hold him responsible for the gashing that took place by Jacobs and Barber the first half but nothing for the few yards given up in the fourth.
    #13
  4. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Um...

    #14
  5. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Earth to jeff..

    I presented the average stats for the last 2 games and said nothing about a particular half. We gave up 287 yards and 21 points yesterday;;;; period. When did i say different?

    You also don't understand the basic concept of time. Our defense has sucked for 2 1/2 years. We have been good for 2 games. That has a lot to do with the alleged hypocrisy. As brian said even a broken clock is right 2 times a day.

    Let's have this conversation in 4-5 weeks when it will really matter. despite what you may consider to be schwartz's incredible coaching we are still DEAD LAST IN TOTAL DEFEnSE!

    Finally you damn well know that i have not blamed schwartz exclusively for this team like many because the buck stops with fisher and reese. Reese has not drafted well on that side of the ball and even if schwartz is the village idiot jeff fisher deserves blame because he hired him and keeps him on..
    #15
  6. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    I put words in pope jeff's mouth?

    I have been screaming from the highest mountaintop that fisher deserves our ire for bad defensive play since last season. How many posts have i brought that point up? I have written numerous posts where i argued that even if schwartz is a horrible DC it is fisher that we should bash because he keeps this guy on. I have made that point ad naseum!

    I have also written numerous posts bashing reese for his poor draft picks on that side of the ball. Just the other day i did that. Anyone who tries to paint me just as a schwartz basher needs to have head removed from buttocks!

    Who is crapping who jeff?
    #16
  7. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Interesting...

    TJ, I have no doubt that SOME hypocrisy exists as it is the nature of sportsfans to 'excuse' players/coaches they like and villify the ones they don't.

    However, your hypocrisy argument for the board only would fly if you sampled the same people.

    Additionally, we've discussed many times that players AND coaches are responsible for a performance....both good and bad. And that goes for BOTH sides (our side and the opposing side).

    The D came out fired up, but that quickly went away and was erased by a marching Giants offense we couldn't stop (nor really slow down). It appeared our D was unprepared for all the OL pulling they did...which they always do. After building a 21 point lead... Coughlin went more conservative...probably because Eli's struggled very badly the last couple of weeks. This HELPED us.

    But frankly, if not for Burress giving up on that deep ball that Pac intercepted and the Giants playing a prevent on D, we lose that game. You can say it was great coaching to put Pac on Burress (those that was the Giants choice, not Schwartz's), but it came down to Burress giving up and Pac...given the opportunity, making the play. That play and VY's subsequent performance energized the D...and combined with Eli going in the tank, helped us defend the conservative Giants offense.

    So in this particular game, the Giants had there way with our D and scored 21 points in a half. But the game changed on an individual play that had virtually nothing to do with coaching. Am I supposed to give Schwartz credit for that?

    I give Schwartz credit for his playcalling in the second half (because we gave up no huge plays and zero points) and for keeping our points below our season avg (and in a range where we had a realistic chance to win). But I can hardly say that was a great win because of Schwartz.

    Here's a question for you....if a DC calls a standard 4-3 defense (that any other DC might call) and the offense runs a plays and the defense stops the run for 3.5 yard gain and the guy supposed to (on paper) make the tackle - makes the tackle. Who do you give credit to? The player or the coordinator? Or split it in some fashion?

    Gut
    #17
  8. Childress79

    Childress79 Loungefly ® Tip Jar Donor

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    Could this be the shortest 'Gut' post in history? :shocked:
    #18
  9. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    All I am saying is Schwartz isn't the only reason for this as you admit below. You somehow turn it into an endorsement. Pathetic.

    You just can't respond to someone without putting words in their mouth, can you? Where did I ever say Schwartz was an incredible coach? Ever?

    You won't because it's never been said. I HAVE said anyone who blames Schwartz 100% for the failures of this defense is clueless and continue to point out the hypocrisy of those who want to blame him but never give credit.

    The players, Schwartz, Fisher and Reese all deserve part of the blame for what we've seen out there the last 2 1/2 seasons. I tend to put the majority of it on the players where others think replacing Schwartz will cure all.
    #19
  10. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    It's impossible to know based on what you've laid out here. But, in general, every play's success or failure is split between coach and player.

    Thus says Captain Obvious. ;)
    #20
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