Houston...err...Tennessee, we've got a problem!

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Gut, Aug 21, 2006.

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  1. Riverman

    Riverman That may be....

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    I agree with that. Hopefully, we see defenseive play Saturday by our first team against their first team indicative of improvement from the last 2 years.
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  2. rcarie

    rcarie Tac Head

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    Your opinion is that Shwartz is the cause of technique deterioration. So your giving the position coaches (who are the ones who coach technique not Shwartz) a pass. I don't get it. If your blaming Shwartz for the d's technical play, than you should be Blaming Fisher for the defensive scheme problems right? All I see is passing the buck here. Shwartz's job is to over see the defensive coaching staff just like it's Fishers job to oversee Shwartz. Does Shwarts suck? Maybe so. If he is the demize of this team and Fish doesn't realize it than he needs to be the one to blame.
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  3. Riverman

    Riverman That may be....

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    My prior posts will tell you what my position is. I'm not giving Fisher a pass nor am I saying Schwarz "caused" the technique lapse.
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  4. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    In most cases, Schwartz is about scheme and the position coaches are about technique.
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  5. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor Tip Jar Donor

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    It don't cost nuthin' to hit somebody
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  6. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Clarity...

    Grab a sandwich and some Chips TJ and commence munching!

    I'll address your points...

    First...when Bulluck sees himself not shuffle his feet and over-run the play, I'm sure he is thinking about WHY he did that and I think his conclusion will be that he felt he had to make the play so he threw out his technique and his defensive responsibility and ran down the line. When we make mistakes we 'allowed' ourselves to make, we usually have a justification for it. And right or wrong, it HURTS the defense so it needs to be addressed by Schwartz AND McGinnis.

    We practice fundamentals all the time in any physical technique. I'm a martial artist. I learned how to punch when I was in elementary school. Do you think I still practice punching? If you've been a professional boxer for 7 years, don't you think they KNOW every technique in boxing? And yet they ALL have coaches and spend hours and hours punching a heavy bag. Why? To maintain technical excellence (we'll ignore strategy/scheme for the moment).

    Every single player on the Titans KNOWS how to tackle. So ask yourself...why do they still practice it...they know it right? Or better yet, why do we have position coaches beyond initial training camp? They've learned all the techniques, can't Schwartz just show them the defenses in the film room and they go and practice them?

    You're a smart guy so I'll assume you know the answer to the above questions. You get rusty/sloppy (whatever you like to call it) when you don't practice physical techniques.

    More importantly, there is a big difference in knowing HOW to do something, being able to perform it in practice, and being able to perform it as second nature (as in a fluid game situation). And this is ultimately what we're talking about...

    You have to monitor players to keep their technique perfect without them having to think about it. For example, when I teach drums, I teach students a certain basic drum beat. Once they can play it comfortably (performing it in practice), I make them play it again but ask them rudimentary questions....spell your first name, what is 3-2, whats the name of your dog? Know what happens, they mess up. Did they mess up because they forgot the name of their dog or they haven't learned the technique? No. But they haven't mastered the technique to the level that they didn't have to think about it.

    Some players in the NFL never learn technique, some master it, and some need constant monitoring to get them to do it. This is where coaching comes in. A defensive coordinator goes over the scheme for the defense with position coaches and tells them what needs to be done. Ultimately, he is the head coach for the defense. The reason they have position coaches is that the DC can't be in 3 different places at once teaching/coaching the DL, LB's, and DB's. The position coaches are there to get done what the DC wants to get done. If he feels the DB's aren't catching balls hitting them in the hands, he's gonna tell the secondary coach he wants that worked on. However, certain skills/techniques are unit-wide things....tackling and pursuit angles are 2 of the most important to a defense. Ultimately (at least at the HS level) you need the whole D working on these things because they are fundamental to good defense. Living in NY, I can't watch the Titans practice, but the Jets do practice this team wide. Tackling is obviously a very important skill. Within a certain variance of talent and scheme, the best tackling team will be a much better D - assuming they take proper pursuit angles (of course there are other things like taking on and shedding blocks, but you get the point). And when you pursue, you need to know where everyone else is pursuing from which is why we always practiced pursuit as a team defense. Afterall, you don't just have half the kickoff team run down to practice kickoffs...you need all 11.

    In the past, Gregg Williams did not allow many missed tackles in a game. When there were a few more than he liked, the defense practiced in pads and did some extra tackling drills and magically, the tackling got better. Did anyone learn a new technique? No...but there was an emphasis on this when the technique got sloppy. The team I used to help coach got similar treatment. If we didn't tackle well, they ran more AND spent some more time doing tackling drills. They already knew HOW to tackle, but got sloppy in games because they hadn't mastered it to a certain level to retain technical excellence.

    Hope that makes sense.

    So getting back to Bulluck...when I see him getting more and more sloppy with his technique and I see this repeated throughout the defense, the DC is responsible. Same with pursuit angles...when it happens to the DL, LB's and DB's on the same play, it is a DC thing, not a McGinnis thing since he didn't coach the other units.

    Now, you may have noticed that some people are calling for McGinnis to replace Schwartz, but the position coaches don't get a free pass either. McGinnis should be all over Bulluck to get his LB technique perfect and challenge him to set the example. Shuffling your feet and staying 'back' on the runner (as the backside LB) is a LB thing...that particular thing is a McGinnis' issue. The fact that technique breakdowns are happening across the defense in position specific techniques AND in team defense techniques is a DC thing. Hence my call for Fisher to take over the D, not McGinnis.

    As far as...how do you gameplan if all you do is fundamentals...

    No one is suggesting that you spend all your practice time working on tackling and taking proper pursuit angles. I only spend 5-10 minutes working on fundamentals prior to each practice. However if I see a problem with a certain fundamental, it will get additional time...but not even close to half the practice. Usually these things are not large corrections since they already 'know' the technique. But as in teaching anything...when you see technique breakdowns, they MUST be addressed FIRST. If a CB doesn't do a backpedal correctly and you let it slide, how is that gonna help your blitz package you're trying to install because that CB is gonna get smoked = totally ineffective. Technique breakdowns are the first thing that kills a D no matter how sound your scheme. Case in point, the backside LB to the play is usually the 'hit' man (or the guy who is SUPPOSED to make the tackle. If he over-runs the play and the RB cuts back, there is only a S and possibly a CB between him and the endzone. The defense called was sound and should have only given up 3 yards (or less)...but poor technique turned it into a 60 yard TD. If everyone on the D played with proper technique but the WLB didn't shuffle his feet, you could blame the player. He normally plays with good technique but messed up on that particular play and we got burned. But when half the D is doing the same thing...it's the DC.

    You need to drill and drill technique until it is second nature. Since most of these guys aren't learning how to tackle for the first time, we're not talking about spending a lot of time, but making it an emphasis both on the field (when it's practiced) and on gamefilm. If someone screws up during the game, they get chewed out in gamefilm review. When one of my students messes up a C scale, which they've been playing for 10 years, I don't make them practice the C scale for an hour, but they will hear about it and have to play it perfectly a few more times than normal to make it perfect and presto...problem solved in minimal time.

    As far as the previous defenses were concerned, Schwartz did 'better' when he had more vets (who are better at self monitoring) and fewer injuries. You could argue that vets have more experience so they will play better, but I would argue another point. In these last 2 years, we are far removed from MOST of the players who were coached by Gregg Williams. So the newer players are purely a product of Schwartz. To me, it is not surprising that as more and more of the players from Gregg Williams days are gone, the worse our D has gotten despite quite an influx in talent on D (via free agents and draft picks based on where they were picked). What does that tell you?

    As far as simplifying the scheme, this is a BAD argument. You know who has the simplest D? The Bucs for quite a number of years and now the Colts. Simple D's can be quite destructive...except for ours. And as far as we 'need' to simplify the D because of our youth...let me remind you that the 46 D is one of the most complicated defenses the league has seen and Buddy Ryan implimented it quite effectively in a single off-season. Furthermore, the Patriots seem to be able to learn a new defense in a week (like flipping to a 4-3 when needed)...how did they do that? And remember, a few of their defenses allowed them to win the Superbowl with youth at FS, CB and an undrafted CB...and a WR playing nickel. How did they manage to have any kind of D let alone one good enough to win the Super Bowl and send Peyton packing his bags....yet we can't impliment a real D because of youth and inexperience? Even on the HS level we had to impliment new defenses in a single week. So the point is, that is just blowing smoke. Not only can it be done, it is being done!

    As far as you seeing this as a talent issue...how do you figure? We have...IMO...at LEAST average talent on D but have managed to finish near last in the league the last 2 years. We have UPGRADED defensive talent this off-season and I'm not seeing much improvement yet (except for Hope being a leader and voicing what needs to be voiced).

    Every single defensive coach from the defensive quality control guy all the way to Fisher plays a part in this defense. If you think we have a lack of talent at D (despite all the draft choices), you should be calling for Reese's hide. I'd also like to know who you think is sub-par on this D...?

    As I've said before, if it was a talent issue, our players would be playing with good technique but simply get overwhelmed or outrun. Instead we are getting overwhelmed BECAUSE of poor technique.

    Anyway, that's my $10!

    Gut



    #66
  7. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    If only it worked like that...

    You can't separate them like that. That would mean while the defense watches gamefilm, Schwartz would only comment on how the scheme worked or didn't....and the position coaches would look for the technique problems?

    You should hear Gregg Williams breakdown tape...he points out every incorrect detail from a player mis-aligned, to poor technique, to plain getting beat by superior talent. And you know what, he doesn't blame the player or the position coaches...he blames himself because HE'S the one 'allowing it to happen.' I only use him as an example since we are all familiar with him.

    If you're responsible, you better know WHY things are happening and know HOW to fix them.

    Position coaches don't get a free pass - as I mentioned before - but they take their cues from the DC. McGinnis is not responsible for the secondary taking poor pursuit angles nor for a DE losing contain. We can balme him for LB specific things...but team defense problems land at the feet of Schwartz.

    Gut

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  8. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor Tip Jar Donor

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    succinct and to the point -lol

    good read Gut
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  9. Sledge

    Sledge Guest

    Guys, preseason means squat. Never did, never will. Guys like Musa Smith look like super studs, but they barely get 50 carries in the season. Think Jay Cutler would play like this during the regular season? Come on. The fact is there is ZERO pressure to win, and when there's ZERO pressure to win, two things can happen: You either look all world because you say "heck this is my chance to shine" or you just look like you belong in NFL Europe because your spot is secure and you don't go all out and just say screw it, I ain't risking an injury, no way...

    Preseason means nothing, nada, zilch. Ask the Colts...
    #69
  10. GoT

    GoT Strength and Honor Tip Jar Donor

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    I mostly agree with your point about Ws and Ls, but the loss in Denver was less about the W or L and more about the absolut lack of any pride, effort, attitude or commitment. The Titans were throughly outplayed in every aspect of the game. No way can the "it's preseason" apply to such a complete beatdown.

    If T-Rac made the trip I bet he got forced into some scandalous horse - racoon goings on.
    #70
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