For everyone who thinks we "reached" to get Chris Johnson in the 1st round

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Carpy, Apr 30, 2008.

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  1. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

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    Sorry Gut but IMHO we are ALL "stupid" when compared to pro scouts who do this stuff for a living, watch extensive film of these guys as well as seeing them live, work them out, interview them and such. Certainly we are ALL stupid compared to NFL coaches who have been coaching football for many years and I have no issue with admitting I'm very stupid trying to compare my knowledge of a DL prospect compared to Washburn.

    I guess if you are a family member of a Titan's starter you may have more insight into certain things but are you really trying to intelligently say some familly member of a Titan player knows more about the value as a prospect of a kid playing football at Winston Salem or East Carolina. Say it isn't so?
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  2. TM

    TM Starter

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    Gage was 23rd not 27th. That's below average for the top 32 receivers.

    R. Williams was ranked 42nd. That's above average for #2 WRs (33-64). Overall both of our two starting WRs have a positive DVOA, meaning they are above average compared to the entire league.

    But the point of my post was that the rest of our skill players had a negative DVOA. That's why the Titans concentrated on the TEs, RB and slot receiver positions. All of which you ignored.
    #42
  3. TM

    TM Starter

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    I have season tickets and seldom miss a game. In addition I record all the games and watch them a second or third time.

    I stand by my point. The Titans had bigger problems than their outside starting WRs. The Titans management apparently agreed with me and that's why they chose to address the other offensive skill positions in both free agency and the draft.
    #43
  4. utdtitans

    utdtitans Camp Fodder

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    I think us not getting a wr this year was because we didn't want to overpay for the guys in free agency and we thought there would be one there in the 2nd round. WR is not really a huge need for our team solely because they are not used that often in fisher's offense. And that all great determinant of the DVOA that you're using has braylon edwards, houshmanzadeh, and larry fitzgerald to name a couple as worse wr's then gage. It also has anthony gonzalez #1 so I guess he's the best wr in the league.
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  5. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Soxcat...

    If you look up the word stupid, it has to do with your mental acumen, not how much you know about football vs a coach or scout. Therefore, someone calling you stupid is basically saying you're unintelligent, not you have a lack of knowledge.

    And the point he's trying to make is that none of us are scouts so we can't know anything more than any other fan. This shows a lack of knowledge...as in none of us know the backgrounds of all the posters so you can't know if anyone's worked for an NFL team or been a scout or whatever. And making a blanket statement that none of us knows what we're talking about...is far from accurate. I, among other ppl on this board, do know what I'm talking about when discussing players. Does it mean I'm alway right? Certainly not. Our scouts who are paid to do this aren't right a lot either.

    I mentioned the Titans family member to emphasize the point that all the fans are not equal in terms of our knowledge and experience in watching, playing, evaluating football. A family member may have better insight into certain things than any of us merely because they can find out the truth.

    Does a Titans family member have any more idea about the value of William Hayes? I would have no idea. So I wouldn't suggest that they do...but merely that they might have more knowledge of certain things than the avg fan.

    Gut
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  6. Ubiq

    Ubiq BAMF

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    Ignorant - adj.: lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact. All Titans fans, including Gut, are ignorant to what went, or goes on in an NFL war-room. None of them have access to any NFL team's draft-board, therefore, they are ignorant in regards to where a player should or should not be taken.
    #46
  7. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

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    I agree, ignorant might be a better term than stupid.

    Here are some facts we don't have to be ignorant of:
    1. The Titans, scouts, coaches and GM thought the value of a 4.24 40 RB from ECU was greater to our team than any WR in the draft. That is a fact because of what we did.

    2. The Titans, scouts, coaches and GM thought the value of an athletic DT was more valuable to the team in the 2nd round than any WR or other player available in the draft at that point. That is a fact because of what we did.

    3. The Titans, scouts, coaches and GM thought the value of the best blocking TE in the draft who also happens to run a 4.6 40 was more valuable to the team in the 3rd round than any WR or other player available in the draft.

    and so forth

    Outside of Steven's we have no idea where any of those players would have been taken and we will never know (we know Stevens would have been taken by Baltimore because they had him on the phone and told him so).
    #47
  8. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    Um....

    Yeah, we know the Titans preferred those players where they took them since that's where they took them. Reminding us of those facts is pointless...

    What we are arguing about is whether they SHOULD have taken those players at those spots. Those are opinions...not facts.

    Agreed, we'll never know where any of them would have been drafted if they hadn't been selected there. But based on players with similar traits and skill sets, we can argue over where a player should be rated. And even NFL teams can have greatly different ratings of players. Remember that Ohio RB Maurice Clarett? Most teams didn't even have him on their draft board but he went in rnd 3. So was he a reach or worth a 3rd rnd pick since that is what someone was willing to 'spend' on him?

    And btw, even the Stevens thing is not a 100% guarantee since there have been times when a team has said we're gonna take you next...and then didn't (usually cuz they ended up trading out of the pick). But that does tell us 2 teams were willing to take him around the Titans pick.

    Baltimore has a rule...they call every pick before they select him. If they can't get you on the phone when they have to pick...they WON'T select you.

    Gut
    #48
  9. titans4life10

    titans4life10 Camp Fodder

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    Just want to kind of jump in here.....but would any one hate the fact we drafted CJ first round if Sweed didnt go to Pitt the pick right before us? Cj pick 1 and Sweed pick 2 would of definately gave the Titans a B- average for draft. Or am I the only that was pissed the Steelers to Sweed right before us?
    #49
  10. Gut

    Gut Starter

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    No...

    I was more annoyed they didn't drop out of rnd 1 into early-mid 2nd rnd to get more picks where I thought they should be able to get 2 players they I really liked...CJ, DeSean Jackson, Calais, Quentin Groves, Flowers, ect.

    If we missed on CJ, I would have been very happy with DeSean Jackson and Groves and another mid rnd pick for example.

    I do think the Titans thought Sweed or Groves would fall to us...but they didn't and it wouldn't have cost the Titans to move up a few spots to make sure they got one of them. Of course, they are obviously high on Jones and we'll see if that pays off for us.

    Gut
    #50
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