Enough already! It's mario!

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by RollTide, Mar 12, 2006.

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  1. PragIdealist

    PragIdealist Guest

    There aren't any better stats. That's what I've said several times.

    I'm saying you misused stats, because it looks like in this post you are comparing Omar Jacobs and Jay Cutler based on their team stats. Maybe thats not what you were trying to do.. but thats what it looked like.

    Then you make a conclusion based on those team stats that Jacobs is a better value with the 20th pick than cutler would be with the 3rd pick. You made that conclusion after comparing their team stats. All these stats are saying is that Jacob had more concrete success on his team than Cutler had on Vandy. That doesnt compare their abilities; and in my mind its their abilities that give them their value.

    I totally understand your desire to use facts to back up your argument. You just cant do that in these discussions because we dont have the facts that we need. Its like we're trying to build a shed and we're out of nails. Instead of admitting that and realizing that we just cant build this shed right now, you're trying to use thumb tacks. It just doesnt work.
    #91
  2. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Ok prag...

    I forgot the only stats that matter for comparison according to you are guys on the same team.

    Here are the stats for jacob's backup since he was on the same team playing the same opposition.

    Anthony turner-52-85 492 yards, 2 tds, 4 ints...

    How is that?


    Based on what you said i could argue that akili smith was more talented than john elway and you couldn't have a thing to say to refute it. Because elway had more "concrete success" with his team doesn't mean he had more ability.

    Is that moronic or what?
    #92
  3. PragIdealist

    PragIdealist Guest

    I think its funny. There is some truth to that. Without stats what argument could somebody put up?

    Why do you think people will argue for generations about which great player is better than another great player?

    But just calling it moronic doesnt make the statement less true and using an extreme example makes it look more moronic than it is. Tell me, who was the better qb Elway or Montana? Give me an argument that doesnt use stats. Who was better Bird or Jordan? Whose achievement was more impressive Kobe Byrant or Chamberlain?

    Its all opinion.

    What I can say is that the Steelers were better than the Seahawks in last years Superbowl.


    I also find it amusing that you blame me for their not being any concrete facts to use. I didnt steal your nails; they weren't there to begin with. I'm just trying to tell you that your shed is leaky and likely to fall down.
    #93
  4. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Guest

    If Houston takes Bush, New orleans takes Brick, Hawk, or Mario.
    If Houston takes Young (or any QB), New orleans takes Bush.
    I say we decide between the remaining two QBs or trade down to 4 and get the QB that's left.( Thats if Jets take a QB) i think they will.
    If somehow bush gets through to 2. TAKE HIM, So basicly, we get a QB in the first round.
    Plus, our D-line is Better than our QB situation. We have 2 pro-bowl calibar lineman and some improving rookies. QB McNair's last year. And I don't know if Volek's ready for the responsibility of a starter.
    Hey, NO's old QB Aaron Brooks is on the market, check him out!
    #94
  5. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Spinnaker...

    That's the thinking i basically object to. The idea we have to take a QB whether he is the best player or not.

    With brees now a saint there is the distinct possibility we could have our pick from all three top QBs. The texans will take bush i'm sure of that. So who do we take. My point all along is that cutler is not likely worth that high a pick. Some agree and some disagree. Fine we can still be friends right? So who is it?

    Personally i would like to think that vince young will provide compelling evidence why we should draft him. The GMs know the truth about that wonderlic regardless what they are feeding to the media. Since young has done nothing else aside from letting them measure him(645, 229) and take the wonderlic we don't have that compelling evidence yet. My hope is that he didn't score that low and his workouts are so good he will be the guy which is what most of us assumed all along.
    #95
  6. Gunny

    Gunny Lord and Master Tip Jar Donor

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    My 10th? why the need for 3 decimal places?

    Anyway I used to have an opinion, but I realised having an actual personality is much better for me.

    :winker:
    #96
  7. Vigsted

    Vigsted Starter

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    RollTide, all previous posts aside.

    What would you do if had the #3 pick and you REALLY wanted the 10th rated player, but nobody wants to trade with you?
    Do you pick the best player available and give up on the guy you really want, or do you accept that in order to get the guy you really want you have to make a reach for him?

    That's where we differ, I think, because if I REALLY wanted Cutler or Young, I would reach for them, even if they were rated 10th or whatever, and I couldn't trade down. So the question is, how badly does the organisation want Leinart, Young or Cutler, compared to the other possibilities.
    #97
  8. Titans2008

    Titans2008 Camp Fodder

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    Why would you really want them if you had them rated 10th ?
    #98
  9. Vigsted

    Vigsted Starter

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    I'm talking being rated strictly on abilities, withouth thought of team needs, overall quality of the position in the draft, etc.

    As an example Hawk is rated pretty high most places, but the draft at that position is deep. It would almost be a waste to pick Hawk in the top 10, because further down the rankings you find LB's that aren't that far from Hawk.

    The same could probably be argued for Mario Williams. You have Kiwanuka, Wimbley, Hali, Lawson, who are all close behind Williams (and no I'm not saying they're as good, but they could easily wind up having better careers).
    #99
  10. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Vigsted....

    Why rank players if you are not going to abide by those ranking? I can see reaching a little for a QB because it is the most important postion but not 7 spots.

    You would be passing on too many good players.
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