Chris Johnson....

Titans are generally trade-downers. Can't remember the last time they've made a move to move up for somebody in the first round, which is usually smart. You can find some good talent in the 2nd-3rd rounds, although we haven't had a good track record with 2nd rounders with MR. Paul Williams, Senderrick Marks, Jared Cook (essentially)

Personally, If I were going to trade anything, I'd rather trade for someone who has been around for a few years. You know what they're capable of in the NFL at least.

 

Agreed !

Again my only issue right now is this, is this all a problem with Vince's lack of character (heart, desire, drive/leadership ability, effort, ability to play through pain), or is there an underlying problem that has affected all those aspects of his character, namely a head coach who has not fully gotten behind his QB and at times seems to almost undermine the progress of his team's "franchise QB" ?

Like I said, I think the truth lies somewhere in between those two factors. Vince can control the the first by giving all he has got to give to being the best athlete and QB on the field every Sunday he suits up in a Titan uniform. If he does that in practice and during the games week in and week out it seems to me that Fisher would have no reason or cause to doubt his abilities, nor to do retarded things like starting a clearly injured Collins in Miami over Vince. I still don't buy the party line (by Fisher) that Vince was so clearly not ready to play physically that Collins gave us the best chance to win. There is/was something Fishy going on there (no pun intended) and my gut tells me that Vince didn't show the necessary desire to be out there starting to convince Fisher that he should have been.

I am only speculating, but there has been plenty of reporting and "smack" talked from various outlets that sort of reinforce the strong possibility that this is what might have happened, and if so then shame on Vince as he is only proving once again that he is NOT the guy and reinforcing all the doubt in Fisher's mind that he is not the leader he (and the team) need Vince to be.

On the other hand, if Vince was fully able to play at a high enough level to be out there starting and made it clear to Fish in his actions/play in practice and Fish deliberately didn't start him, then this is a situation that will never resolve itself with both of these parties in the positions that they currently occupy. Something has got to give soon...

We got way off topic though, and again, although I do fear we are going to burn CJ out just like we did Eddie, no way do I trade him to move up in the draft unless he makes it impossible to resign him... If this deal with Vince doesn't work out I'd absolutely be interested in looking at dealing for Kolb though, I think he's going to be an extremely solid QB when he gets in the right system and ours with the young talent at receiver and the solid running game we have (normally) would seem to be a perfect fit !

 

Although I didn't agree with the basic premise of trading CJ for a chance at drafting a franchise QB the logic behind it certainly wasn't totally stupid or insane.

First of all it was based on two things.
1. CJ wanting a huge contract which IS going to happen and
2. VY continuing to crap on himself

Now my preference would be to trade draft pick(s) for Kolb and keep CJ or if we do trade CJ trade with another team for an impact player at another position and a draft pick or two. I don't like the risk of trading for a rookie QB but Kolb at least is a guy we know something about. Certainly Vick is going to be the future of the Eagles and I can't see the Eagles keeping Kolb's high salary around that being the case.

Now even if we did get Kolb (the number one priority IMO if VY isn't the answer) we could still trade CJ for maybe a draft pick or two and a player at a need position.

Even if CJ ends up being the best RB in the history of the game it has been proven that having a great RB doesn't usually translate into SB wins. There is a huge list of great RBs who never got to the SB (or even played in that many playoff games). Even Payton didn't win one until he was at the end of his career. RB is one of the easier positions to fill and even if we don't have a guy as good as CJ as long as we have someone who can carry the rock decently we can be competitive. The other factor is RBs don't have long careers. Giving CJ a huge ocntract is risky and quite honestly there is a real good chance before he fulfills it he will be diminishing in ability or out of the league. Nobody saw it coming with Eddie George and quite a few RBs have floundered after getting the big money. A franchise QB on the other hand can play well into their 30s.

Another thing to think about and it is important. CJ is NOT Marshall Faulk. CJ simply isn't very effective in the passing game and IMO should take a seat to Ringer in those situations. IMO that does lower his value some. Not a deal breaker but important when considering him for a huge contract.

Now there was a trade made in the NFl that shines a little light on a RBs value. Before the 2004 season, the Broncos traded Portis to the Redskins for cornerback
Champ Bailey and a second-round draft pick in the 2004. I love CJ but if someone is going to offer a pro-bowl defensive player and a 2nd round pick for him I'm not sure I don't think long and hard about it.

Look at the situation right now to prove my point. We have CJ but our defense stinks and we have inconsistency at QB. Sure Young has shown improvement but if these injuries keep playing a part and Young finishes the season lacking leadership and consistency does anyone see a good way to improve the team? Or do we just keep trying the same thing and getting the same results. Now that might qualify as being insane.

 

Let's get rid of our two best offensive players so we can draft some QB that may or may not be good in the NFL.

Brilliant.

 

I'd be open to Kolb, at the right price. I think he's probably a good QB but somehow along the way got much too overhyped. The guy's really only had two great games in his career and seems to have a propensity for turnovers (4 INTs and 5 fumbles in 4.5 games this season).

Kolb could turn into a stud but as of right now I just don't see where all the praise comes from. Even before the season analysts were hyping him up like he was gonna be the second coming of Dan Marino or something.

I'd gladly give up a 2nd for him but I think Philly will want much more than that. I just can't see him being worth a 1st round pick+ at this point. I think I'd rather take my chances with a 1st round rookie rather than trade it away for Kolb.

 

Very good stuff Soxcat ! You may have swayed me in the "don't trade CJ" argument. The Portis trade is a great example of getting a ton of value for a proven player at a position that you are correct, doesn't have to be the best, just very consistent to win a championship. Also, with the way Vick is playing (and assuming he keeps it up) no way in hell they are able to keep Kolb waiting in the wings like they are. He'll definitely want out and they will definitely want to trade him. However, the Titans never make good deals like that so, not going to hold my breath on that one at all...

I still maintain Vince has the ability to be the guy here, but he needs to have the desire and heart and that's where I fear he just won't ever measure up (in Nashville anyway...)

 

If anyone gives up a 1st for him they are insane. they'll be lucky to get a 2nd. And that's good value for someone who is currently a backup on your team.

 

Based on who we have on the roster right now and the guys likely to hit the market in free agency, we'd have no one to carry the ball.

 

It's not a fluke that the Titans never have a bad starting running back. The powers that be in the organization make anyone we have work. Chris Brown was good for a few seasons, and he was not a good running back. Travis Henry was a stud here, when he should have been about done in the NFL. I seriously think the worst starting RB we've had here is Eddie at the end of his career.

Overall: the Titans=success at the RB position.

 

Have we forgotten Chris Henry? And frankly, I'd put Lendale in the bust group too. Only reason White got 1,110 yards is he got a bunch of carries for 3.5 yards a pop.