Better value CJ in rd 1 or Rice in rd 2..not close!

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by RollTide, May 27, 2008.

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  1. maximus

    maximus Camp Fodder

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    You can still run the ball out of the Slot back (SB) position. End Around.
    Why not line up in a 3 WR set? I'm not saying we won't, but CJ causes mismatches and forces defense to make a decision on how to guard him. As Carpy said, having CJ on the field will open things up for White.
    Brian Westbrook and Reggie Bush both split out wide occasionally, Bush did it more his rookie season when Duece was healthy
    #31
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  2. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    My opinion of gunny's contribution to this message board.

    The yawner board is the one where they talk about chris johnson's number.

    We are talking football. Titans football about a titans player. How good he might be and how best to use him. Why all the girlie man whining? Don't read or participate if you don't like it.
    #32
  3. maximus

    maximus Camp Fodder

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    It's not entirely out of the question that some, not all of Duece's success came a result of teams focusing on Reggie Bush, the same goes for Brees
    White and Johnson in the game at the same time forces teams to account for CJ's speed and White's power, along with VY and the other skill position players on our offense. That opens things up for everyone involved.

    Lining someone out at SB/WR in certain situations does not make him a WR. When teams go 4 wide, many times a RB is split out. When teams go 5 WR, I would argue that 90% of the time, a RB is split out.

    CJ will spend a go bit of time in the backfield. I'm not arguing that he is going to be converted to a WR. I don't think Carpy is either. But splitting him out wide creates mismatches. Hemi loves to exploit mismatches
    CJ will also be running and catching the ball out of the backfield. Screens and Swing passes will also allow him to get his speed into the open field.
    #33
  4. RollTide

    RollTide All-Pro

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    Most backs split out in motion from the backfield they usually don't start in the slot. Running from the slot is very limited and usually doesn't work in the nfl.


    He has to be a capable runner from the backfield. Normal plays. They can determine if he runs best with a FB or as a single back with 2 TEs but he absolutely MUST be a solid running threat in our base defense. If he is not than at best he is just an average WR and not very useful.

    Forcing him into the offense or significantly altering our offense for him can be harmful not helpful. In my opinion our best offensive set is with a single back and 2 Tes, 2 WRs. That is the most balanced and best for our personel to have sciafe and crumpler out there. A good dual threat back in that set can be very successful in that set running or receiving..
    #34
  5. maximus

    maximus Camp Fodder

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    Motioning CJ to the slot is even better arguably. It would show what defense is doing (man vs zone) and also more likely that he gets matched up with a LB.

    CJ is a RB. He needs to be able to run the ball. What packages (2 TE, Spread, I-Form) that he will run in will be decided in Training camp
    I also like the 2 TE, 2 WR offense with CJ. The 2 TE will be guarded by LB, the 2 WR by CBs, leaving CJ to match up against the S (a good mismatch).
    Running in that formation is also good because you are blocking 7 with 7. If you're able to pull the backside guard and slide the backside tackle you can create some run lanes on counters, sweeps, and tosses. Depending on who the backside guard is, you might be able to run up the gut too.
    #35
  6. Carpy

    Carpy Disgruntled foreign veteran

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    Not sure if you watched the Saints in 2006, but Bush and McAllister were on the field at the same time PLENTY. Particularly in the red zone.

    I'm not suggesting we move him to receiver at all. No one is suggesting we line Johnson up at Split End and have him run Post patterns. But I do expect that we find ways to get the ball in his hands that doesn't just involve hand-offs from the QB.

    Absolutely. And guess who led the Saints in receptions that year with 88 catches? That's right Reggie Bush. And 90% of those receptions were passes caught around or behind the line of scrimmage on flares, screens etc.
    #36
  7. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Old Man Tip Jar Donor

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    I'm hoping we'll see long runs by Vince because of setups like this. Somewhat take away a teams ability to spy on Vince, an offseason to rest the hamstring, i'm hoping we see an increase in his running game as well as his passing game.
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  8. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    Your correct. He's not all those things but he will be. He's a good matchup in the slot against a LB but can also be a RB with speed. He can return kicks but is also a X-factor like Hester. I'm not trying to compare him to anyone I'm just naming some of his attributes.
    #38
  9. Gunny

    Gunny Lord and Master Tip Jar Donor

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    *yawn*

    Dissecting a player who hasn't seen the field is about as useless as a one legged man in a *** kicking contest.
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  10. The Playmaker

    The Playmaker pineapple pizza party

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    I agree with you RT. I think the "dual threat" is being said in the wrong meaning. Unless CJ goes into the slot their isn't a way for both LW and CJ to be in the RB position unless LW goes to FB. The only way were going to get 100% of CJ is for him to be a starter. But with LW and Chris Henry ALSO potentially Ron Dayne. Their isn't a balanced way to get LW and CJ to playing up to their potenial, as starter material. This backfield isn't just CJ being compared to Westbrook and Bush it should be compared to when Philly had Duce Staley and Brian Westbrook or Duce McCallister and Reggie Bush in New Orleans. Even though sometimes Staley and McCallister lined up at FB they were traditionally RB's. With Ahmard Hall, Chris Henry, and the possibility of Dayne. Their isn't room on the depth chart.

    Lendale White will most likely be more of a goal line back and short yardage this year and Chris Johnson as a "flex" back. Chris Henry will sometimes be used on 3rd.

    Chris Brown was drafted just as a regular RB. Yes he could catch and have other attributes but he was a more "pure" RB. LW is more of a power back and Chris Johnson that "flex", muli-talented, or whatever you want to call him. If Chris Brown would've stayed healthy we wouldn't be having this discussion. He's a very good player who just couldn't stay on the field.

    Now if we once again compare Chris Johnson and Ray Rice, CJ still wins. Even though CJ wasn't projected to go in the 1st round we still got great value with CJ. Rice is only a RB. CJ once again is that "flex" offensive weapon we've been needing. Running, catching, returning, and etc. At first I didn't like the pick but I've become a fan of the pick. I was originally with RT on the subject. Draft someone like Slaton or Rice later in the draft and address DB and WR early then go DE and RB later. Except, it was the exact opposite this year.
    #40
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