Are Sims or Reed Poised for a Breakout Season?

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Dangermode, Mar 16, 2017.

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  1. 615nick

    615nick Starter

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    At the time i didn't like the move at all, but the 200 draft points we gave up for him is well worth it now. We have our bookends locked up for the next decade now and that is worth way more than a swap for this years 2nd and last years 3rd. Hell I'd give an extra 3rd for that move.

    That's all in hindsight though.
     
  2. NotoriousZEUS

    NotoriousZEUS Rookie

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    Yeah, I mean the Dodd pick was a wasted pick in my opinion. Like I already mentioned, there was better fitting pass rushers we could've selected and didn't, and I can only assume the reason.

    We needed a NT, we got one. He wasn't the best NT on my board, hell he wasn't even in the top 3, but he got a rd 2-3 grade from most people and I thought he was a solid prospect myself and still do. It's obviously not the best pick we could of made, and I certainly don't love the pick, but I can live with it unlike the Dodd pick.

    Well, he's a NT so his job is different. His job is to put pressure on the inside to free up the edge. He's going to be a nice upgrade from what we had before in the passing game.
     
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  3. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    The problem is, you need 2nd round players to not only start, but be the nucleus of the team in the next year or two. I didn't like the Henry pick - not due to Henry - who I think is a very good player, but because we knew this rb class would be loaded and we had serious holes (like CB, S) we didn't address until Byard - who most thought was a reach and CB late.

    A prime example of this poor drafting (Webster) we saw first hand but another example is the Giants. They admitted they drafted so poorly, they had no nucleus of players from those drafts so a team that doesn't like to spend too much in free agency had to go crazy and buy half their defense!!! Perhaps even more surprising is they fired the HC w 2SB rings and kept the GM who made all of those bad draft picks!

    We don't want to be forced to do that!

    I was not so enthralled with our draft as others. Some of the same criticism of Webster (drafting backups while we don't have starters at key positions can be levied at JRob too. I give him a bit of a pass since he's not really sure what we have and it appears he relied on advice to get certain free agents to at least patch up the secondary - which didn't work. But now he's been here a year and should know exactly what we have in our players and the deficiencies this team has. No more passes.

    In a base 3-4, I don't expect a lot of pass rush out of our NT. But in nickel with a 4 man front, he's either on the field or he's not. If he's not, then he is not bringing much pass rush. We'll see how he does. And remember, he was on Denver with Von Miller and Ware coming off the edge and they had very good interior rushers too. So was it that he's not a good pass rusher or just that someone else got their too fast?

    And frankly, wasn't Blackson drafted to start at DE or NT? And then DJ. And then AJ...meanwhile we sign another guy to start? I'm not spending 3rd round picks for backups. Not a good use of draft capital.

    I'll give Sly a clean slate and evaluate him on his play here. But we need production from Dodd, a stout run D presence from AJ, and more work for Henry...especially on 3rd and 4th and short situations. We have a couple of battering rams...use them!!!

    One last thought. We need to show we can develop players...especially on D. We have had a hard time trying to develop CB's in general. Many 1st-3rd round players did not pan out well and McCourty was one of the few bright spots for a while. But notice that Bouye and Malcom Butler were developed by those teams into not just starter quality - but star quality players. We need to be able to do that. You can trade them for first round picks or get a 3rd round pick in comp when they get signed to big contracts. That's how you end up with a better roster than others! Develop players!

    But for a team that hasn't shown much ability to do that so far, we need more talent in the room and let the best players earn it. Part of a culture change we need to have here and something they are trying to do. Same can be said at WR.
     
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  4. Johnnyb

    Johnnyb RTR

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    I think you have to take the Henry pick in context too though. We felt fairly confident in getting Murray, but there was no way to be 100% sure if what happened in Philly was a fluke of him being in the wrong system, or if his play really had fallen off a cliff. If we wanted to be a smashmouth team, we had to have a power back that was good. We just hedged our bets with Henry. As we know now, Murray is still the pro-bowler he was in Dallas, but there was no way to know that for sure last offseason.

    Part of developing players is giving them game experience and letting them fail and learn. Some of that is going to be trial and error and patience. It's really hard for some of these NFL coaches to give young guys a chance because their jobs are on the line too. They want a guy who will do what they ask and understands the game, and they don't have a lot of time to wait on some young guy to figure it out.

    The Pats have some luxury in that regard because they've been so successful that no one's getting canned for a few bad games. They've also built a culture that expects young players to learn "the Patriot way" and buy in. You could say, "well let's do that!" but everyone is trying to do that, and it's just not that easy. Plus having an assassin at QB covers up a lot of other woes.

    But I will commend our coaches for giving Sims a good long shot last year, and as I believe most of us agree, he really did come a long ways. He showed he had the athleticism to play the outside and took the coaching given to him as he continued to improve the more he played. I believe he'll get a good chance to compete for a starting spot.
     
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  5. Johnnyb

    Johnnyb RTR

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    Yeah I'm with Gut, I don't think he'll be there in the 2nd round. If we want him, I think we'd have to get him at #18. He was already moving up boards, then he blew up the combine and Sidney Jones had the injury so there was one less CB in front of him.
     
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  6. NotoriousZEUS

    NotoriousZEUS Rookie

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    Yeah, I mean our draft wasn't perfect, but we can't expect it to be. That was my point not to criticize J-Rob in particular, but also not to just say "in J-Rob I trust" at every move he makes. I'm a fan of the Titans before I am a fan of J-Rob and want us to do the best we can do.

    Getting 3 talented players, albeit one who is a backup isn't too bad of a draft for a first year guy, with some decent late round guys to mix.

    I agree though, I wanted Henry bad at 33 before we traded for Murray, but after we did I was very confident in him. We were the league's worst team, and with the value of RBs, I think we had to trust the process and go for some additional secondary, and the fact that we were damn near dead last the previous year and last year kind of goes to show that was needed.

    My only hope is J-Rob doesn't pull the same move this year. We can't afford to not grab a playmaker in the secondary in the 1st round, if not even a second one in the first 3. I fear LeBeau, who is historically not a big fan of corners might be in his ear too much, but when our corners consist of Sims/Ryan..we are going to be in trouble when trying to make consideration for the playoffs next year, much less trying to beat guys like Tom Brady and Matt Ryan in advancing and winning a Super Bowl.

    Corners are generally not someone you can plug in immediately and fix your problems either, so delaying it maybe delaying future appearances as well.
     
    #116 NotoriousZEUS, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
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  7. Gut

    Gut Pro Bowler

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    Fair enough! But far too often...especially under Webster and some under Reese, we were taking 2nd and even 3rd string guys when we had holes at starters. I think you get my point in general.

    To some extent yes, and to some extent no. There is nothing like actual game speed so practice and real game are different. But as we've seen with players like Butler and Bouye, really learning technique, cleaning up the physical part as well as learning to read and react based on understanding the defense and what the offense is gonna try and do to attack it goes a long way. That's how nobodies in Butler and Bouye develop into very good or great players without super elite athleticism. Also, Aaron Rodgers didn't need a lot of playing time after learning in practice and McCarthy's QB camp. Iron out the problems, improve everything and get them ready to play so when they actually get on the field, it's a much smaller learning curve.

    That's one thing I like that JRob has starting building is more of a Pats type accountability and responsibility!

    I expect all of our players to compete for their spots even though we know some players will keep theirs (Mariota, Casey, etc). And while Sims showed us some play, we don't know what we have in him yet. So keep adding more talent to the room, coach em up in practice and let the best players earn starting spots! Sims will be in the mix, but the draft will tell us how much the Titans believe in him right now. Even if they don't draft a cb til round 3, Sims will have to fight for a spot....as he should!
     
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  8. Dangermode

    Dangermode A New Era has Begun

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    I couldn't agree more. Ryan and McCain are arguably our two best corners right now and are both best suited to play inside. We need a CB1. Plain and simple.
     
  9. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    Glad to see a balanced critique of JRob. Lots of fanboy praise for him around here. I think he gets a pass from many because he has been promoted as a "home-grown".

    He has made a few more good moves than bad and he's missed on about the same number key FA agent additions that he's hit on.
     
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  10. abc2330

    abc2330 Pro Bowler

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    This describes every GM in the history of the league, even the great ones. NE has made plenty of bad decisions. The team nearly doubled the number of wins from the two seasons prior to that, combined. Repeat that to yourself that before you decide to jump on his case. And yes, I think that deserves for us to give him the benefit of the doubt, for now.

    I don't understand the criticism of him not overpaying for unproven FAs, but that's just me.
     
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