All those scared of a new coach.....

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by customtitan, Jan 10, 2010.

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  1. amy

    amy Starter

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    "But i am trying to make fisher the scapegoat. Scapegoat afterall means one who should take the blame, doesnt it?"

    No, it means one on whom the blame in laid BY OTHERS. It doesn't mean he SHOULD take the blame. It also implies that the blamed one is not guilty, but has to assume the blame just the same. The prime example would be Jesus. The difference between Fisher and Jesus is that Jesus accepted the blame. I don't think Fish will accept that much blame! :)

    sorry, that's the teacher in me!
    #91
  2. Gunny

    Gunny Lord and Master Tip Jar Donor

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    They had the same 'stache though.
    #92
  3. Soxcat

    Soxcat Starter

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    Good post.
    The difference between going 8-8 and getting to the playoffs and actually winning playoff games can be a slim margin. Answer this. Do we have a coach who can tip the scales in our favor? I'm not sure right now. Seems like Fisher tipped the scales to the negative this year. Fisher hired Cecil. Fisher, who is supposed to be a defensive minded coach obviously didn't have a very good influence on the defense. Fisher said everything would be OK in the return game. We saw that cost us at least one game. Fisher has to take credit, good or bad for the roster. He decides who makes the team and how the players are utilized.

    I don't agree with this non-seonse about the Qb position. Young didn't demonstrate enough improvement and consistency in the pre-season to win the starting job and Collins was coming off a 13-3 record as the starter. If the roles were reversed nobody in their right mind would want Young benched in the same scenario. Also there were massive issues everywhere on the team besides QB in the first 6 games. Even in the Pats game Young wouldn't have been able to do squat. I don't think Young stepping in and starting the Jax and Indy games before the NE game would have made any difference either. Keep in mind we lost the first 3 games by a total of 13 points, two games by only 3 points and anotehr by a TD. No coach would have made a QB change after those games. The defense lost the next three. Bottom line is if the team wasn't 0-6 and going into a bye Young might not have started when he did. It is just common sense. KC had QB rating of 81 and 90 in the first two games. IMO Fisher was not confident nor should he have been that Young would have made a difference until after the NE game and even then at 0-6 there was nothing to lose.
    #93
  4. dbc5631

    dbc5631 Special Teams Standout

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    !!!!!

    NO SHID!!!
    We don't have a Ray Lewis or Ed Reed or Hgata, etc. You are a Titans fan so you have an inflated opinion of our players but K. Bulluck and M. Griffin/Chris Hope couldn't hold Lewis or Reeds Jockstrap!!!
    The Ravens have WAY more talent than the Titans yet Fisher still competes with 1 true superstar(CJ) Vince Young has never won a big game.At least Collins beat Pitt and the Ravens last season. That's Jeff Fisher and since you still havent figured it out yet, it's why he's still the head coach and if he left would be hired by another team within a day! Quit jackin it to the playoffs. You don't get a ring if the Titans win. Spend your money and shut up haters. If you don't like it go follow that circus in Knoxville since they like to play the coaching carousel game.
    #94
  5. Gunny

    Gunny Lord and Master Tip Jar Donor

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    Vince Young beat the Superbowl winning colts
    #95
  6. karmarouge

    karmarouge Camp Fodder

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    the word means one who is blamed for something or one who may be blamed for something unjustifiably.

    I am using the first description of the word. Blaming fisher for something he should rightly take the blame for.

    He is the man at the helm the captain of the ship, the buck should stop with him.


    But see tennessee fans i find very interesting. Years ago when i had just moved here, i had no opinion on the vols. Incidentally thats the same year Manning had lost the heisman to charles woodson. And the town was still abuzz with talk of lawsuits and such to correct this misstep. I thought that a little bit odd. But that was enough, I actually corrected some one about the problems UT had by telling him that Phil Fulmer was by far one of the worst coaches i had seen in football behind Mack Brown. The whole room definitely fell silent. And it didnt help when that Clint freakin Sterner fumbled the national championship to Ut and i had to put up with daft UT fans screaming victory even before their matchup with FSU and its 3rd string QB.

    You are probably wondering what the hell this has to do with scapegoats, well then came the kelly washington years,(with me on the sidelines still screaming HELLO!!! Fulmer sucks) the initial scapegoat for the woes the vols experienced soon after. He soon enough graduated and went to the NFL. Next in line was Randy Sanders freakin sucks! Again with me on the side lines screaming hello!!!! Its the coach who sucks es!!!
    Sanders of course is fired and the fiasco that ensues is legendary. Finally every one realizes the truth, Phil Fulmer freakin sucks! All those years at UT with a plethora of talent, like Reggie White, Peyton Manning, Travis Henry, Jamal lewis, Albert Haynesworth, John Henderson, the man had only managed to stumble on to on single championship. I defy any one to find a coach with that much talent and just one championship appearance his whole career to match. (You dont have to look far folks.. he is hidden behind a "stache" and has even failed to fluke a championship givent he best teams , more than once!!.)

    I waited that long for people to come round on the vols, (whom i still absolutely hate and i am enjoying their turmoil right now), I will wait patiently for you to come round on Fisher.

    Ultimately you will come round,ultimately you will be the one planting the "for sale" signs on Fisher's yard, fate is on my side, destiny is on my side the stats are on my side, but guess what, you got luck on your side. VY and CJ just may stumble upon a superbowl like the vols did..(yeah right...:ha:)

    I just hope that when your dream has finally exploded, my team that i still support will be in a better place than the vols are right now.
    #96
  7. karmarouge

    karmarouge Camp Fodder

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    So what would fisher do if he had them? Put them in a four man rush so that the QB and sit back comfortably picking our team apart?

    Hasnt fisher had comparable defenses or even better and then ended up losing his very first play off games with number one ranked defenses?

    Best d-line in football in 2008 what does Fisher do? well he sends a 4 man rush and gives a rookie Qb Joey some other time to throw tds...:gag:

    Oh but people wanna blame the fumbling and turn overs... Because calling out the dumb coach we have is just unacceptable in little ole nashville!!!

    You gotta be joking making that post as though all of us dont know that even with that talent, Fisher would have been sending stupid azz four man rushes giving Brady all the time in the world he needs to score tds.


    I have to ask this question again. Why is it that titans fans have this penchant for making up what coulda woulda shoulda happened when you have actual factual information to tell you almost 99% of the time what WILL happen?

    Seriously is it a mystery any more to people when fisher calls a draw play on 3rd and 15?
    Is it a surprise to any one when he kneels on the ball with 1 minute left and 3 time outs in his pocket?
    Why act surprised when he benches good players for garbage?

    The man has been doing this crap all his life. Now you want us to speculate on what he would do with ray lewis, Ed Reed and Ngata on his team..


    Bro he would send a four man rush!!! DUH!!!
    #97
  8. Yossarian

    Yossarian I am Him.

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    I can agree with you about Fulmer being overrated, especially considering the amount of talent he brought in year after year. However, you fail to realize that the level of control one has in college vs. professional football is completely different. Fulmer was able to bring in his own players, players whose talents he knew well. Of course the story was usually the same with Fat Phil, he'd bring them in and completely misuse them. He was way too conservative.

    Fisher doesn't have the autonomy to bring in exactly who he wants (see Vince Young) and has to rely on possibly a senile old man, VP of Operation, VP of Player Personnel, etc. before he can pull the trigger on major decisions. The NFL is certainly more business oriented and thus you have more and more red tape to deal with.

    I feel like Bud Adams is a major reason to blame for our mediocrity over the years. However, Fisher is certainly no saint. Adams IMO is about 5 years behind Al Davis in the senile race. His meddling of the team's player selection and while his forcing VY into the game turned out to be a blessing no one expected, it goes to show his heavy hand at times. If Adams didn't care for how VY was being handled, then fire Fisher and find someone who could better utilize his talents. He probably was going to but, forgot and got caught up watching reruns of Green Acres.
    #98
  9. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    Ultimately? Yes. Fisher's job is to give his team the game plan and the best opportunity to execute it.

    He's to blame for putting Mouton in... twice. But Mouton has to take blame here for not executing as well.

    There were many factors involved in that 0-6 start. Collins was just one factor, and, IMO, not nearly as big a one as the defense and special teams. But I do blame Fisher for not making the move on his own and Bud having force him to do it.

    That scheme led to the #7 defense last season. I don't blame the scheme when Griffin repeatedly bites on the play fake or Harper gets torched. I do blame Fisher for hiring a DC who may not be ready and not having the depth at CB to deal with injuries.

    Henry? Yeah. Stupid pick. Nickey? He's the best coverage player on the team. He's cheap and he's depth.

    Fisher may have gone to Reinfeldt and asked and the team was unable to get anyone. But, as I have said numerous times, lack of depth at DB was a glaringly obvious issue at the end of training camp. We can't know for certain that Fisher didn't want more experience there. They brought in Faggins so they had to have thought some experience was needed before camp.

    As I said earlier, all personnel decisions are on Fisher. 100%.

    Jones didn't show much at training camp and then got hurt. The guy fumbled in the only preseason game he played in. The Panthers said he was injured after the Titans cut him the first time which is why they didn't sign him. So whether it was the injury or just a poor evaluation of talent by Reinfeldt/Fisher, Jones wasn't the answer and they wanted Mouton in there from the start. When he choked, it was about finding anyone who could catch the football. So I do blame Fisher for poor judgment but he can't control injuries.

    After a 13-3 season, we'd had Fisher's head if he'd decided to start Young over Collins entering the regular season. Young sure didn't show us much in the preseason. In the dozen or so camp practices I went to, nothing he did led me to believe he needed to be the Titans #1 entering the season.

    As I said previously, Collins wasn't the main reason for the 0-6 start. But Fisher has to step up when the team gets blown out 59-0 and show some leadership and he didn't. Change, for the sake of change, has to happen at that point and he blew it. At that point, he has to shake things up just to see if the team responds.

    As I said, Fisher is to blame for hiring Cecil who looked lost early in the season. But the same scheme was good enough in '08 to finish in the top 10 with 10 of the 11 players. I put a lot of the defensive results this season on execution and injury.

    What we need to be asking here is whether or not the team would have been better if Fisher had been better and that is, without a doubt, yes. Did he just have a bad season coming off 13-3 when everyone here thought he was among the league's best? Were the players just good enough last season to overcome Fisher's mistakes?

    When I evaluate Fisher, I try to look at the past five seasons. I don't look at one season. I don't look at his entire career. Five seasons is a window I feel is reasonable to get a good idea of where he is now as a coach.

    During that time, he's dealt with a variety of issues:

    2005 - Pacman's rookie season and McNair's last. Though there were a lot of young players starting, the Titans lost a number of close games. I remember then the talk of how the team was underachieving on the way to a 4-12 record. Fisher had to deal with the Pacman issues which were poorly-handled any way you look at it.

    2006 - Young's rookie season. Poor start where Fisher brings in Collins a week before the first game of the regular season. Bud forces Fisher to start Young after an 0-4 start. The Titans finish 8-8 mainly due to big plays by Pacman and Young. I can't give Fisher much credit here. He didn't want to start Young when it was obvious something needed to be done. He kept Lamont Thompson and Peter Sirmon as starters when both were a liability.

    2007 - The Titans played sloppy football but feasted on some bad teams. They ended the season 10-6. Despite Young's poor play, Fisher didn't make a switch to Collins. Though the Titans made the playoffs, it was pretty much due to the Colts resting everyone Week 16. This was the Pacman suspension season and the defense carried the team. Chow was fired soon after.

    2008 - Big 10-0 start. Finish 13-3. I really don't see where anyone can complain. They won some close one. They caught a ton of breaks. The team stayed healthy. Everything seemed to click. Do we give credit to Fisher for this even though the team lost in the first round or do we see this as the team winning in spite of Fisher? The team was +14 in the giveaway/takeaway ratio. Their success rate in the redzone was outstanding as was special teams play.

    2009 - no need to rehash.

    What this adds up to me as is average. Fisher doesn't seem to be able to compensate for youth or when key injuries hit. To be fair, few coaches can. He seems to win when the talent is stacked (as most coaches do). I don't see any year here he overachieved besides '08. That's totally offset by what he did in '09. As for '05-'07, I think just about any coach in the NFL today could have done the same.
    #99
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  10. customtitan

    customtitan Special Teams Standout

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    i agree with basically everything you said. very fair and isnt just out and out blasting fisher and head huntin, very good.

    my question to all the nay-sayers to this logic, after 15 years of average results why cant you move on? their is more to football in nashville than jeff fisher, it is very possible to win without him. 15 years!!!! lemme say that again, 15 years!!!!! thats half my life....how much longer are you guys willing to wait, how much more time does he need?
    i hear all the time about how this is a solid team that is just a person or two away from gettin over the hump.... what if that person is fisher? i know, i know crazy talk....
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