Faulk says Titans known for not paying players (new CJ contract)

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by Riverman, May 18, 2010.

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  1. MidTNTitansFan

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    That's it. That is what everyone is ignoring. He wants a brand new contract and that is the only way to do it this year. That's why it will not get done this year.

    I'd high five you if I had the ability.
     
    #151 MidTNTitansFan, May 20, 2010
  4. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    I put a quick pencil to what would need to happen. Here goes:

    CJ's original deal was five-years, $12 mil with $7 mil guaranteed. Last season, he made $385k. He's scheduled to make $560k in '10, $800k in '11 and $2.21m in '12.

    By adding up these numbers, I figure CJ has made around $8.43m in his first two seasons.

    If I understand the CBA rule, a new contract would only allow for a base to be 30% more than his previous base.

    That would mean that his base would actually go DOWN under a new contract.

    Let's assume CJ is willing to do a new contract which adds a year onto his current one. Here's how the base would shape up vs. his current deal:

    2010: $500,500 vs. $560k
    2011: $650,650 vs. $800k
    2012: $845,845 vs. $2.21
    2013: $1.1 mil

    So a new deal actually would mean he would lose $460k in base salary while giving the Titans an extra year.

    Let's say that they give CJ a signing bonus of $15m to do this new deal.

    From these numbers, CJ would be paid a total of $18.1m in a four-year deal ($4.53m per season avg.)

    CJ has said he wants to be the highest-paid offensive player. This deal doesn't get close. Steven Jackson's six-year deal was for $44.8m (avg $7.46m per year) and that was two years ago. So, to get CJ up to Jackson's deal, the Titans would have to pay a bonus of close to $27-30 mil in a four-year deal.
     
    #152 TitanJeff, May 20, 2010
  7. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    1. Faulk stated "Titans are known for not paying its players..." and stated he has heard the same sentiment from others. I don't have a problem with the titans running things efficiently at a lower cost. So I think you've got my point of view wrong.

    2. Yes- I do believe we have a reputation of "being cheap" toward players. I also think that reputation is gaining popularity on a national level and this situation with CJ highlights it. Taking a hardball stance (or at least the posturing represented) like in today's Tennessean article only amplifies the reputation.

    http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100520/SPORTS01/5200325/2161

    3. Hell no- I don't think he should get a $45m whopper of a deal. I think the Titans should get him and his agent in a sit down and get something done agreeable to both sides. Isn't this year an uncapped year? And if you structure that signing bonus to be paid this year- how does that hurt us in the future or put the FRANCHISE at risk? Bud's wallet maybe? I suspect that is where CJ's agent is coming from. Yes- it MIGHT cause other players to want to do the same- but the Titans have a legitimate reason not to. What other Titan led the league in their position?
     
    #153 Riverman, May 20, 2010
  10. GoTitans3801

    GoTitans3801 Forward Progress!

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    Oh, we don't need to give him a huge deal, we just need to come up with something reasonable to both sides! In that case, I totally agree, and can't believe we haven't worked out a non-whopper deal!

    The problem here is that the other side (CJ & agent) aren't being reasonable. CJ said he wants to be the highest paid offensive player. Manning is about to sign a contract supposedly worth well over 100 million dollars, at roughly 20 million per year. How do we work out a deal in that range?

    How does a huge signing bonus put the franchise at risk? It's remarkably simple... we give him a $40 million signing bonus, he gets hurt next year, and then he costs us 8 million against the cap for the next three years, when he's either not nearly as good, or not even on the team.

    Seriously, you can't put this together?

    If you have a solution that makes sense for the team and CJ, please, tell us all what it is.
     
    #154 GoTitans3801, May 20, 2010
  13. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    ^^^

    From what I've read, MR hasn't done anything than state our hands are tied with the 30% rule. I've read that has been stated by him multiple times.

    I'm sure more earnest discussion will occur on both sides as TC approaches but certainly the organization could do more to address this issue publicly. I think CJ (or his agen) has only said he wants to be the highest paid offensive player on once occasion. (I know it has been quoted in many different articles.) I doubt he would turn down the opportunity to sit down to negotiate something less than "top paid" but who knows.

    As I understand it, the signing bonus could all be paid this year. This uncapped year would be the best available time for that to happen. If not, it still could be pro-rated. Other teams do it and survive with excellent results (The Colts, to use your example).

    And what if CJ does get hurt next year? First, he loses out HUGE if he doesn't have a contract in place. And believe me- the other players will take notice of a guy who busted his azz and missed an opportunity to be compensated at a rate commensurate with the league for his level of production. Second, if he does have a contract where his bonus has all been paid during the uncapped year, the Titans could stand to have less at risk in regards to the cap if his salary is decreased. But even if his salary stays the same or goes up slightly, there isn't any more risk to the organization than a player with a similar salary getting injured.
     
    #155 Riverman, May 20, 2010
  16. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    Any bonus the Titans would give to CJ would not be pro-rated. There's no future cap implications. It's totally about giving a ton of guaranteed money to a player.
     
    #156 TitanJeff, May 20, 2010
  19. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    Certainly seems ideal for everyone but Bud. I mean what better time for the franchise to pay your whopper contract than in an uncapped year?

    What do you see as the risk to the organization in structuring contract in the vincinity that CJ wants? What greater indicator of work ethic can a player have than to produce at a league leading level during a non-contract year? (I know he's not at OTA's, but so far he is working out this off-season like he did last.)
     
    #157 Riverman, May 20, 2010
  22. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    I'm not going to blame any owner for not wanting to give up $40m in guaranteed money based on one outstanding season.

    What I think is realistic is the Titans give him something in the range of $15-20m in exchange for another year on his current contract. If they were able to do an agreement with Haynesworth during his franchise tag season, why not agree to adjust the deal once a new CBA is in place and guarantee him that his money would increase based on a number of incentives as they did with Big Al?
     
    #158 TitanJeff, May 20, 2010
  25. GoTitans3801

    GoTitans3801 Forward Progress!

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    That's likely, but I don't think we can predict whether it will be true once a new CBA is agreed to. It's too up in the air at this point. Though I can't predict anything that would act retro-actively, I have no idea what it will look like.
     
    #159 GoTitans3801, May 20, 2010
  28. GoTitans3801

    GoTitans3801 Forward Progress!

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    You're right, we don't have any idea what talks, if any, have happened between the two. All we know is that they haven't been able to come to a mutually beneficial agreement. Which means that we can't assume that the Titans have offered CJ a reasonable contract, but it also means that we can't assume that CJ has made any more reasonable demands.

    Yes, the signing bonus could decide not to use pro-rating to take advantage of the uncapped year. It's still a huge risk/investment in one player, with the team giving up a TON, the player getting everything he wants, and the team hoping that CJ will keep showing up and being the best that he can be after he's gotten his major payday and is set for life. How well did that work for the redskins?

    What does CJ get if he gets hurt next year? Funny you should ask, but he gets the 7 million dollars in guaranteed money built into his first contract, which is why it was there. Yes, it's below his current market value, but that's the risk and reward of signing a contract. He was set for life before playing in the NFL, what he wants now is more than 5 times that, guaranteed.

    I get it, you want the Titans to voluntarily give up three years of a great deal for their best player, to take the huge risk of paying him now with no motivation for him to keep playing hard, and leave themselves no way to recoup their losses if it all goes badly. On the flipside, you're worried about poor CJ because he might get hurt playing football this season and only make seven million dollars.

    Yes, there's a huge middle ground here. Let's not act like there's one unreasonable bad guy.
     
    #160 GoTitans3801, May 20, 2010
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