The 2010 Official Reinfeldt is an Idiot Thread

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by TitanJeff, Mar 4, 2010.

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  1. Titans Blue

    Titans Blue Camp Fodder

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    we are not bad, but we are not great
     
  2. SifuSoul

    SifuSoul Camp Fodder

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    Admittedly, and I think this has been touched on before, you can't really blame the FO for the team sucking it up in the playoffs.

    But as far as that 31-17 record is concerned however, we got fat on some mediocre teams in 08, and in 09, it took history to even get us to 8-8, and we saw what happened when we played a team with real post-season aspirations during that stretch. Did we beat a playoff team last year? (Cardinals were sans Warner, so I kind of doubt the validity of that, GREAT GAME as it was)

    And I reject that getting corner/lb/DL depth this offseason hurts the roster in other places considering they are our only other problems. (Though, depth at every position is an issue)
     
  3. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    Don't sensationalize the opposing viewpoint. Nobody is "revolting" as your inflammatory rhetoric suggests. Read the other posts again- you'll get a better feel for what is being said.
     
  4. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    Are you suggesting that the titans hit on 1 out 3 draft picks? Errrrrrr - yeah those WR's picks before Britt have worked out really well. Finnegan has been the only bright spot in the CB dept. I think your numbers are a bit skewed concerning our record. And if we do hit 1 out 3 and get between 7-10 picks per year- that leaves 3 potential starters out of a class per year. With 22 starting slots, we better either pay to keep our guys or get somebody else in. And we only keep the "reasonable" guys- we let pro-bowlers walk when we deem them "downside".


    I've responded to this already in an earlier post.


    Yep, "pretty good". That's about all the Titans can say they have done. They are "one and done" in the few playoff years since '03. Personally, I'd rather see us take a couple of risks to get over the hump rather than keep on with our early exit strategy in the playoffs.


    Interesting. Now since you are fond of asking questions, I have a question for you. If every team has the same cap number to work with as you have stated and our GM/FO/personnel modus operandi is good as touted by many posters, how is it that the Colts, The Patriots and Steelers have multiple deep playoff runs and Super Bowl Victories?

    Your not being honest TJ. I doubt anybody discussing things here supports or supported Bernard Berrian's contract. Likewise we don't know who supported Washington. I remember just as many people griping about us signing Washington who had a history of "drops" in Pittsburgh.

    And I also don't think those supporting the idea that our FO could show more interest in the "first tier" guys (those players being courted by many teams for higher compensation aka- higher market value) by bringing them in for a closer look are so simplistic to believe that higher compensation equals higher production as you suggest.

    Anyway- I can certainly respect your opinions, but I just don't agree that EVERY move the Titans FO has made or has neglected to make, has been prudent and wise. Until we go deep in the playoffs and/or win the SB the front office philosophy deserves scrutiny.
     
  5. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    Pro-bowlers? Which did the Titans allow to leave not named "Haynesworth"?

    Because there is a lot more to a super bowl than free agency? And you've really names three teams who rarely spend money the first week of free agency which really not in support of your position.

    There were a number of members disappointed the Titans didn't sign him.
    http://www.gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=35292
     
  6. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    Here's the best example I can come up with as to why "market value" can't be based on what one team is willing to spend.

    Leigh Bodden is the top free agent corner right now according to many. Stories are that he's probably looking for five-years in the range of $40 mil. (http://www.examiner.com/x-1324-New-...s-to-get-a-deal-done-quickly--with-the-Texans).

    On the heels of the Dunta Robinson deal of six-years, $57 mil ($22.5 guaranteed), that's realistic, right? Robinson had ZERO INTs last season to Bodden's five. Career-wise, Robinson has 79 starts to Bodden's 67 yet Bodden has five more career picks.

    To look at these numbers, Bodden is as good, if not better than Robinson.

    Guess what? Bodden was a free agent in 2009.

    He was signed by the Patriots two weeks into free agency in a one-year deal worth $2.25 million. That's his "market value" just a year ago. He's one year older and now worth four times as much?
     
  7. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    You've got to be kidding- but since I've already stated my beef is more with the Titans philosophy as much as anything MR has done during his tenure:

    KVB, Mason, McNair, George, Kearse, Runyan, Rolle and those are just off the top of my head in 10 seconds.


    And you've not answered the question. Why haven't the Titans been able to do it since our personnel philosophy is so sound and they have been able to do it repeatedly?

    And those teams do bring in FA's considered upper level WHEN THEY NEED TO. Teams like the Steelers don't often need to because THEY DRAFT WELL (but they did go after Farrior when they had to). Another performance indicator of the front office btw.


    Interesting reference TJ. I scanned the 36 pages but didn't see the Washington stuff. I did see many of the same comments, including your own that MR deserved some criticism for our draft picks not panning out.

    I'm beginning to suspect that each of these questions you ask, the task inquiries and long references appear to be a "throw and fetch" tactic to exhaust the opposing viewpoints to attrition. :jumpropeb:nono:

    I can't convey "market value" any other way. Is Bodden's market value 4 times as much? yes- if somebody is willing to pay it. Period.
     
  8. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    I thought you meant those who had played in the Pro Bowl the year before their release. Are you saying that just because a player makes the Pro Bowl once or twice they always play at Pro Bowl level?

    KVB was like a distant alternate this year. Mason, Rolle, Kearse, and George were part of a cap purge. McNair was due a $10 mil bonus and was already well past his prime as is the case with many you listed here.

    Yes, I did. Free agency is a small part of all the teams you mentioned success. All believe in building through the draft and keeping their core. The Titans haven't had as much success as the teams you mention but that has little to do with Reinfeldt's free agency approach.

    Who did the Pats spend big money on? Welker was through trade as was Moss. Farrior all you have on the Steelers? The same Farrior they signed in 2002? You do realize it's 2010 now, right? The Colts have never been players in free agency.

    If free agency spending is such a solid approach, why aren't the teams which do it the most not the ones you hold up as examples?

    And it's okay with you if it's the Titans, right?
     
  9. Riverman

    Riverman That may be.... Tip Jar Donor

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    I listed them because your question asked "Which pro-bowler's have the Titans released". I'm not trying to justify re-signing them- just to answer your question posited in a what appeared to be an effort to suggest the Titans don't have a history of releasing pro-bowlers. That was your point- not mine. That's disingenuous to counterpoint in that fashion TJ. And no TJ- of course I don't think once a pro-bowler, always a pro-bowler. Please- another attempt at sensationalization of the contrary opinion?


    Bingo. Well if it has little to do with MR's FA approach (and by extension the Titans approach), then what is the difference? That was the question that was asked- so you really didn't answer it. You just answered that in your opinion MR's FA approach has little to do with it.



    First, Welker got an 18 million dollar contract, 9 million guaranteed AND the dolphins got the Pats 2nd and 7th round picks. This went down in early march ("first wave"). Pretty expensive trade in my book. The Titans FO would never dream of a trade like that. The Steelers do a good job of drafting and RETAINING their premier players- Hines Ward, they picked up Farrior and they keep him 8 years after they acquired him- don't see the Titans doing things like that b/c it's "too expensive" and our players our on their "downside"..... And the Colts picked up Vinatieri for a 2.5 million/year contract EARLY in FA when it was obvious that Vanderjagt wasn't getting it done. And do you think the Colts are going to let Peyton walk anytime soon because he has been playing now for 12 years or even lock him out of the facility?

    You and others have been asking repeatedly for examples and sensationalizing the opposing viewpoint. I certainly have not suggested "free agency spending as such a solid approach" as you commented above, but rather have suggested only that our free agency approach should not be so reticent to or biased against getting involved in the first wave of free agency, especially when we have glaring needs. There are at least a few players that could be acquired to address those needs.



    Again you are sensationalizing the opposition. Bodden's market value isn't 4x as much or it would have been paid by now. More realistic he is a 2.5-3 million/yr player now. Furthermore I'm not enamored by Bodden. I think Cromartie was a steal for a third, conditional second with only one year left on his contract. He should have been brought in for a look. But again- he is only one example of a long list of good moves that could have been made by us that weren't. And no- I'm not going to make another list for you TJ because honestly I believe you are really not "persuaded" by any list I could generate. I believe you just ask questions like that to promote attrition of an opposing opinion. So I am completely OK agreeing to disagree on this issue.
     
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  10. TitanJeff

    TitanJeff Kahuna Grande Staff

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    Wow. I would have thought it was a given that we were talking about current Pro Bowlers when we are discussing how well the Titans keep their core players. And be sure to ignore the circumstances which led to the departure of Mason, Rolle, George and McNair. It was paying those players while in their prime which led to eventually having to let them go.

    I've answered it twice now. Reinfeldt's approach in free agency is the same approach the majority of successful NFL teams have taken. You seem to think it's a bad thing then you use three other successful franchises with the same approach as examples. :ha:

    Five years for $18 mil wasn't a huge signing even in '07. The Pats didn't overpay when Drew Bennett got $30 in a six-year deal. Does that mean the market says Drew is better than Wes? ;)

    Like the Titans didn't with Roos, Stewart, Finnegan, Bironas and Fuller? This franchise did this so much from '99-'05, they ended up in cap hell.

    Oooooo. $2.5 mil! That might be impressive had the Titans not just signed Bironas to a four-year, $12 million contract.

    I asked you before and I'll ask again... WHO?!?!

    Who are these "first-tier" players you feel the Titans should have outbid everyone else for the last couple of free agencies. Be sure to post the deal made because that will directly impact those players the Titans did actually bring in, resigned or can resign next season and beyond since the huge free-agency deals impact the cap for five and six seasons.

    It's hard to know until it plays out. If Cro plays anything close to a full season, it'll cost them a second. If they can't work out a long-term deal, they're basically giving up a second for one season. If Cro ends up with 10 picks, it's worth it. If he has the same season he did last year, then obviously it isn't.

    If you'd produced a list at all, then we might have something to discuss. So far, all I have from you is that you'd done the Cro trade (and he wasn't an UFA).

    If you think signing "first-tier" free agents is a great thing, presenting a list of those players should be extremely easy.
     
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