Peyton Manning- best QB? Yeah. Maybe 4 years ago.

Well clearly football is played on a piece of paper and the weapon of choice is a writing utensil. Why even play the game....? We have STATS for that!!!

 

Huh?

I gave you specific examples of how his power has increased over the years. As a rookie or in his first few years, he did NOT call the plays...only audibled out or adjusted a specific pass pattern. There is a big difference between the coach calling a play and the defense showing you a look that would make that a bad play and you audibling to a 'safe' play. When you call all your own plays, you have to gameplan how to attack the defense. Since he constantly has a clock and everything else to think about, it's how teams with very good DC's have been able to mess him up in the postseason because they are removed from the action. Now he has complete freedom to do what he wants and it's helped the pass game and hurt the run game.

If this were true, his rb's would get better each year as Peyton adjusted the run game to suit their strengths. But the opposite is happening.

No, why would it? You could just as easily have a much higher ypc.

EXACTLY why the Colts runners have a huge advantage over virtually every team this side of Tom Brady. Their running plays SHOULD be much more effective and they SHOULD have a higher than avg YPC even if they have fewer total yards due to fewer attempts. Look at the Run and Shoot offense the Oilers employed with a strong passing attack...virtually every rusher they had...even guys who were mediocre rb's had high ypc.

Who's pretending? There OL is good enough to have some high ypc games against some good run defenses...why can't they run against mediocre or bad run defenses? Inconsistency. If they could never run against good run defenses and only had good stats against bad defenses...you could chalk it up to the OL being outplayed. But that's not the case.

Addai was really banged up last year but he looked better this year. If you want to write him off as not being the same player, you can't explain why Brown has not run better. He has obviously at least a solid OL and optimum running conditions given he never sees 8 in a box or a run blitz...so what's the only factor left? Manning's not calling good plays to take advantage of the D or Brown stinks. Here's some food for thought. Manning in the playoffs thought he'd catch the Jets and run a QB sneak to score near the goal line. The Jets aligned with a ton of guys to stop a dive or QB sneak. Did he audible to a pitch or stretch play? No, he tried to sneak it into the teeth of the D and was stuffed. You wanna blame the rb or his OL? For whatever reason, he does not make good decisions regarding the run game and that's where he can get into trouble with stuffs or negative yardage plays.

Gut

 

gotta get the stats to write on the paper

 

While I think Gut has pointed out a flaw in Manning which I've never heard anyone discuss before (impressive!), I'm not entirely sure that it really takes away from his being a great quarterback, and currently, the best.

His passing game is still very impressive. If Gut's assumptions are right, then he is calling the plays and coming close to entirely running the offense himself, something that other QBs don't do. Maybe he hurts the running game, but he sure doesn't seem to hurt the offense as a whole. The team and the offenses' success in that case have all come because of how good Manning is as a passer and passing game strategist. If he can beat you through the air, why go to the ground?

Again, who is better, if Manning isn't the best? I mean, yes, he only led the league in passer rating for three straight years, and hasn't been in the top three for three years. However, he's still had an incredibly high level of production, and he's consistently won games. Through last season, there were still some traces of him choking, but we haven't seen that yet this year. My fear is that he's gotten better at handling big games, and we aren't going to see the Colts slow down for the next five years at a minimum.

Brees, Rivers, and Brady have all been great QBs. So has Farve, for that matter. I still think Manning has been better, and I haven't seen a convincing case made out for any 1 QB who is better.

Gut, Gloat, one of you, make a case. You've criticized, and done it better than most. He's certainly not perfect. But who is better?

 

haah that last one is oh so hilariously hilarious. he went to a hurry up to catch the d unprepared. the ref grabbed the ball out of saturdays hand so the refs could get set.

you are really misinformed. i will give you that manning needs to call more run plays but you are really missing on the colts. you dont know anything

 

Lol...

First, I've watched many Colts games this year...a couple more than the usual two against the Titans and the playoff games. The Colts OL for example, at times did very well against the Jets #1 rated defense. The DIFFERENCE in them doing well on a stretch play when the defense is trying to overload blitz on the other side vs running into the teeth of the defense is PLAYCALLING. When they ran man up against the Jets they did well. So how was the OL poor? Additionally, the sacks given up were when the D brought more guys than you could block on one side and the second one Manning panicked instead of moving to his left.

Second, it is correct that Manning wanted to hurry up and catch the Jets napping on the sneak play and that the ref held the ball (so the line judge could get back to the sideline). It wouldn't have mattered because the Jets were already lined up. Most pertinently is that after the refs allowed the ball to be snapped and it was obvious the Jets had every gap covered and were pinched as well...Manning looked over the D and ran the play anyway into the teeth of the D. That's on Manning and there is no way to see it any other way. Sorry, but the truth hurts sometimes...

Gut

 

Hey...

A very good post! Thanks for wanting to discuss this rationally without name calling and such. I will respond to this when I have a little more time...

But when you say who's better...are you referring to career-wise of current players, historically, or this season?

Thanks for some good posts!

Gut

 

I'd trade VY, CJ and Britt for Manning in a second.

he would get us to the SB sooner than those 3 will imo

 

jesus effin h. why is this thread still going ;p

here's hoping for a good game tomorrow