The case for paying Haynesworth, ASAP

When considering who's available in FA, and whom we should draft, keep in mind the basic philosophy of Fisherball: Run, Run, Run, and throw only if absolutely necessary. Look at the numbers of RB's drafted and picked in FA versus WR's of note. IMO, as long as Fisher is coaching this team, there will never be an emphasis on any WR of quality.

 

One additional note; TE's are Fisher's favorite receivers.

 

The point is KVB was a "BUST" until he turned his career around with us.

Why are people here having a hard time admitting that??? Just because he's good now? I mean it's not going to hurt his feelings to say it like it is.

Didn't really want to sign either one, at least no high on someone I would've wanted. But at least they'd been better than J-mac.

Oh no, a 3rd good CB = disaster and future salary cap purge!

Could've had Turner and drafted the WR I wanted, Desean Jackson

Let me say this so you can understand me:

I AM NOT SAYING SPEND MONEY FOR THE HELL OF IT!

I want to win a Superbowl. We need more talent to win a Superbowl. $$$ is used to bring that talent in. We have considerable room under the cap. I hope we add talent, because I want to win a Superbowl.


(and lay off the stock market comparison, I manage money for a living, and think I did better than most through the downturn of 2008.)

I'll be pitching a ***** if we DON'T re-sign AH, and DON'T sign any other good name FA such as TJ Housh or Dunta Robinson.

Because 30 million in cap space isn't going to win us a Superbowl.

 

I'm fine with that. I would consider him a bust. But KVB is really a bad example for this argument.

Yes, but I doubt they would've been worth the difference in salaries.

Yeah, let's just sign everybody we can, even if we don't need them, even if we are deep at that position, because that will win us a Super Bowl!

And we could've drafted Randy Moss instead of Kevin Dyson in 1998.

I want to win a Super Bowl too! And we really don't need that much more talent. We had the best record in the NFL and we beat the team that won it all by 17 points. I know that isn't good enough, but another year of maturity and experience is going to help as much as adding a couple of pricy free agents. Another good draft, along with a few signings like we've had the last few years (Scott, Hope, Thorton etc.) is all we need to put us over the top. Our strategy in free agency and the draft has taken us from 4-12 to 13-3 in three seasons. Don't mess with what's working.

And I'm sorry, I didn't mean it to be a stock market referrence. I was just talking about every day money spending. That MacroEcon vocab came out for some reason.

I want to bring AH back, but I don't think we can give him a $100 million contract. I think Housh would be a good addition. Not as big on Robinson. But don't spend the $30 million on a bunch of average guys or guys that don't fit in our system just because they have "good names" and we have some cap room.

 

KVB is a response to Gunny.. who said, "Crap players are crap players. They don't turn magically good overnight".

KVB is a perfect example of this... he was a bust. He became magically injury free for us and has been amazing!

A true lucky free agent signing for us that really worked out.

Probably true, unless someone we had won a superbowl this season and they made some difference, which I find unlikely.

Signing Asante Samuel would not be "just signing everybody we could". Asante and Finnegan would be starters and Harper would immediately upgrade our depth.

And don't act like we are "deep" at the CB position, we are not.

Lost me here?

You are talking about who is better for salary, Turner or C.Johnson. Obviously CJ.

My response points out, that for more money, we could've had Turner and D-Jackson.

Overall that's more pieces to a Superbowl puzzle than we had last season.

But guess cheering for unused cap space was more fun?

Yes we are close. And if we aren't super cheap, we'll remain close and might have a legit chance next season.

If we lose AH, and don't add anything in free agency, I have a hard time thinking we are going to be better.

I don't want us to spend $30 million on average guys either.

But I want more talent on the team. I don't know how to acquire that talent without spending $$ which effects our salary cap.

 

Sounds like everybody wants value contracts without wasting money by "overpaying" so let's put that argument to rest because everybody has a different opinion about each player's value.


I'd like to focus on the point on the singular issue of unused cap space so let me ask this question. What good does unused cap space do for the team if we have made prudent and wise decisions with our contracts? By that I mean- not awarding contracts will put us over the cap limit AND have been arranged in a fashion to allow adequate cap space to come available each year.

I think Alex and I believe (correct me if wrong Alex) that unsused cap space is simply inefficient management when we could use that money to extend our top tier players or take one year fliers on some risky FA's (KVB, Collins, Simms, etc) and maybe hit on a few of them.

I'll admit it- it irks me to see that cap space go unused because IMO it doesn't prevent us from being in cap hell (if we have wisely structured the contracts we've awarded). It really only serves as a profit margin for Bud.

I'd like to see us maximally using our resources (cap space) to get us that Super Bowl victory- something that has eluded this franchise.

 

I agree with all of that. I didn't agree with Gunny's statement either, but I was trying to apply that situation to the thread's topic.

I beg to differ. We brought back both corners from the number five defense in the NFL. We added King and Carr, who both proved to be more that servicable in filling in, and we still have Reynaldo Hill, who has been a starter before too. Now we were thin after the injury to King, but that's after the fact.

Yes, but maybe we didn't think Jackson was worth that first pick? There were a lot of concerns about him, which is why he wasn't a first round pick. No other team thought he was worth it either.

Who's cheering for cap space? I enjoy cheering for an organization that is careful about how it spends its money, and has made the right decisions at the right times to get back to the top.

What's your definition of super cheap? Would you consider the last three years as examples of super cheap? I like the fact that we've added very good players who didn't have all the hype, and therefore their contract expectations weren't ridiculous. Thorton, Hope, and Harper all have made huge contributions, and we didn't have to overpay any of them. That's the kind of signings I want to see. I don't want us chasing the Walkers, Halls, etc.

Yes, but I think it's unlikely that we let AH go and not sign anybody. We will do something, but it will be the type of signings the fans moan and groan about.

Maybe my position hasn't been clear. I'm fine with spending some of the money, and yes, you are right that you do have to spend to add talent. My disagreement was that I don't believe we should spend up to the cap limit, just because it's not being used. There's nothing wrong with not spending if what you want isn't there.

 

But the statement that we have heaps of unused cap space is not true. All these insinuations that Bud is being cheap and trying to save pennies are plainly false.

Here is our payroll for last season.
http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2008 (posted again)

Heading into last season our cap situation was almost identical to this season. There is no reason to think that our payroll (and cap picture) will be similar again. I don't have the exact cap numbers for our team for 2009, but absent any more specific details, total payroll is as good an indicator as any.

I'd also like to see us maximise our financial resources to put the best team we can on the field, just like we did last season.

 

On this subject, we are in complete agreement Riverman.

I do like King specifically. And I like Carr pretty well. But Asante upgrades the starters and in turn upgrades the backups.

Certainly Asante-Finnegan-Harper-King-Carr > Finnegan-Harper-King-Carr-R.Hill

We don't have to spend to the limit, but we should spend close to the limit every season if we are managing the cap correctly. Similar to the Colts over the last 5-10 years.

 

1. He was still cut.

2. The FO should have released someone else that wasn't as important to the team to keep him (R. Hill, L.Thompson come to mind), so YES, they were in fact too cheap to keep him.

3. I doubt Mason would have been willing to take a pay cut.

So my example is still dead on. Thanks for playing.


As for the Jason Jones naysayer:

Who gives a **** if it was just one game. It was 'just one game' against the Steelers of all teams. We kept them to 14 points w/o Al and KVB. What part of that, regardless of who else was in or how bad Pitt's o line is, do you not understand?? Damn.
I'm glad you know so much more about him than I do to be able to predict how bad he is going to do next year.