Tom Brady

Discussion in 'Tennessee Titans and NFL Talk' started by lilkhmerkid4u, May 9, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ontario Titan

    Ontario Titan Pro Bowler

    15,745
    4,035
    919
    Yes NE has had great D's, that can be said about alot of SB winners though. Baltimore, TB and Den come to mind but you have to give Brady credit, 17 years, 5 SB's, he's had an impressive career. Not acknowledging that is just ridiculous.
     
  2. abc2330

    abc2330 Pro Bowler

    4,610
    1,634
    519
    Other than one SB, the defense has kept all opponents in the low 20s or less. In really not sure what more you're expecting.
     
  3. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

    21,466
    6,405
    1,059
    In every one of his SB not against the Giants, NE scored 20+. The defense didn't do that.

    My point is there will always be debate about a topic like this because it's really a team sport. I'll say without Brady, the Patriots don't have 5 SB. If they had to turn to Cassel permanently in 09', the NE dynasty would have died then. I still anticipate that whichever QB replaces Brady is going to be the guy that is looked on poorly because NE will not be the perennial AFCCG or SB team they have been under Brady. Too me, that says something about how good Brady is.
     
    • High Five High Five x 1
  4. abc2330

    abc2330 Pro Bowler

    4,610
    1,634
    519
    Right, nothing says explosive offense like scoring 20 points. The team will always be in position to win if the defense holds the opposition like NE's has. And you're speculating that the dynasty will crumble when Brady leaves based on an average backup caliber QB in his first year of experience in college or pros, who won more games than a ton of teams who have made it to the playoffs since. We saw absolutely no Drop off with Garopollo, and the defense punked every contender out there, and the team seems to be getting younger and more talented.

    Look at the scores of the games that NE has lost in the playoffs. Those are on the offense.
     
  5. RTH

    RTH Meh...

    18,039
    4,788
    939
    You're omitting something... the opposing team in the Super Bowl is going to have a good to great offense AND defense. Dropping 20 on a really good defense IS explosive.

    Same can be said for stopping their offense, though.
     
    • High Five High Five x 1
  6. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

    21,466
    6,405
    1,059
    So your argument is that Brady is over rated and just a product of bellichek and defense?

    The guy has spent a career in a game(AFCCG) that most players never reach. He wins 2 of the 3 final seasons before the Peyton Manning rule of 05'. He's been the one consistent name on NE's roster over the course of the longest dynasty run in the history of the NFL (SB era at least). He continues to be among the top of the league every year and with a revolving door of no name WRs outside a couple.

    Other than Aaron Rodgers, who is a solid QB and is 1-0 in the SB, who do you put higher on this goat QB list?
    No way I agree with Rodgers as better than Brady in an all time list but that's not the point.
     
    • High Five High Five x 1
  7. JCBRAVE

    JCBRAVE goTitans 2019 Survivor Champion

    82,274
    26,649
    1,509
    Back in the early days of Brady this argument was true, now its become all Brady.
     
  8. abc2330

    abc2330 Pro Bowler

    4,610
    1,634
    519
    The "no name WR" argument is complete crap. Just because other teams are run by moronic HCs who don't know how to utilize players and have bad QBs doesn't mean guys like Edelman and Hogan aren't talented. Let's not forget guys like Gronk, Moss, and Welker.

    For comparison sake, how many rosters did James Jones stick around on? Nobody wanted him, yet he's led the league in TDs and YPC with Rodgers at QB. He had Jones, Jeff Janis, and Abbrederis in the playoff game against Arizona, and it was the defense who gaffed after he made one of the most clutch throws in playoff history. Guys who can't even stick on a roster. Once Brady carries a cast like that, I'll give him credit, but those guys he's throwing to are always open. People need to quit downplaying them.
     
  9. HurrayTitans!

    HurrayTitans! Useless trivia knowledge champion

    21,466
    6,405
    1,059
    Sorry this is a long reply

    For the case of comparison because you're wrong on the WR thing, here's some stats:
    Every year Brady was starter, every year Rodgers was starter. All WR with 400+ yards in order by yards. The #'s are Offensive pts, Defensive pts, and Defensive yds.

    NE
    01-SB Champs - Troy Brown, David Patten, OP- 6, DP- 6, DY - 24

    02-9-7 Brown, Patten, Deion Branch, OP-10, DP - 17, DY - 23

    03-SB Champs - Branch, Givens, Brown, Graham, Faulk, OP-12, DP-1, DY-7

    04-SB Champs - Givens, Patten, Branch, Graham, OP-4, DP-2, DY-9

    05-Div Rd - Branch, Givens, Brown, Watson, OP-4, DP-17, DY-26

    06-AFCCG - Caldwell, Watson, OP-7, DP-2, DY-6

    07 -SB loss (16-0) - Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney, OP-1, DP-4, DY-4

    08 - No Brady

    09 -WC RD - Welker, Moss, Watson, OP-6, DP-5, DY-11

    10 -Div RD - Welker, Branch, Hernandez, Gronk, B. Tate, OP-1, DP-8, DY-25

    11 -SB Loss - Welker, Gronk, Hernandez, Branch, OP-3, DP-15, DY-31

    12 -AFCCG - Welker, Lloyd, Gronk, Hernandez, Woodhead, OP-1, DP-9, DY-25

    13 -AFCCG - Edelman, Amendola, Gronk, Dobson, Thompkins, Vereen, OP-3, DP-10, DY-26

    14 -SB Champs - Gronk, Edelman, LaFell, Vereen, OP-4, DP-8, DY-13

    15 -AFCCG - Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, Lafell, White, OP-3, DP-10, DY-9

    16 -SB Champs - Edelman, Bennett, Hogan, White, Gronk, Mitchell, OP-3, DP-1, DY-8

    GB
    08 - 6-10 - Jennings, Driver, OP-5, DP-22, DY-20

    09 - WC RD - Jennings, Driver, Finley, Jones, OP-3, DP-7, DY2

    10 - SB Champs - Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Driver, OP-10, DP-2, DY5

    11- Div RD - Nelson, Jennings, Finley, Jones, Driver, OP-1, DP-19, DY-32

    12 - Div RD - Cobb, Jones, Nelson, Finley, OP-5, DP-11, DY-11

    13- WC RD - Nelson, Jones, Boykin, Cobb, OP-8, DP-24, DY-25

    14- NFCCG - Nelson, Cobb, Adams, Lacy, OP-1, DP-13, DY15

    15- Div RD - Jones, Cobb, Rodgers, Adams, Starks, OP-15, DP-12, DY-15

    16- NFCCG - Nelson, Adams, Cobb, OP-4, DP-21, DY-22

    My points of all this:
    1. Brady was 3-0 in SB with Branch, Brown, Givens, and Patten as his primary targets, hardly even a respectable WR corps.
    2. While I agree that Brady's D was good each year he won, the exact same scenario was true when Rodgers won.
    3. You'll note that despite how good the D was, Brady was also a top offensive product each year regardless how the D played.
    4. Rodgers had a stud WR corps almost every year. The 1 game you are mentioning shows how good Rodgers is, but I'm not going to pretend that his lack of 8 SB wins when he didn't win, is solely on the Defense.
    5. As far as your gem playoff game, here's a couple examples of playoff games with a weak WR roster and still winning: 01 WC - Patten, Jermaine Wiggens, Brown, and JR Redmond or 03 DIV (vs. Titans) Christain Fauria, Bethel Johnson, givens, and Dedric Ward. I'd say that's equal to your Jones, Janis, Abbredaris game.
     
    • High Five High Five x 1
  10. abc2330

    abc2330 Pro Bowler

    4,610
    1,634
    519
    Let me rattle some numbers off for you:

    51, 37, 45, 44

    Those are the number of points the defense gave up in 4 out of 7 of Rodgers' playoff losses. That is horrific, garbage defense, and those losses are 100% on them. All of the lower scoring affairs ended with the defense giving up a score at the end after Rodgers tied the game for them, putting the loss on the defense. No Malcolm Butler INT or Trey Flowers clutch sack for them.

    Now look at Brady. His defense gave up 30 points or more in only 3 of his 34 total playoff contests. In his losses, he only had a QB rating of over 90 just twice. Rodgers had over 90 in 4 of the 7 losses. Who's to blame for most of these losses?

    Throw in the fact that Brady's playoff QB rating is 10 points less than Rodgers, and less in the regular season as well, I stand by my claim that Brady is a beneficiary of an excellent situation in NE, and wouldn't even begin to sniff that same success elsewhere.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  • Welcome to goTitans.com

    Established in 2000, goTitans.com is the place for Tennessee Titans fans to talk Titans. Our roots go back to the Tennessee Oilers Fan Page in 1997 and we currently have 4,000 diehard members with 1.5 million messages. To find out about advertising opportunities, contact TitanJeff.
  • The Tip Jar

    For those of you interested in helping the cause, we offer The Tip Jar. For $2 a month, you can become a subscriber and enjoy goTitans.com without ads.

    Hit the Tip Jar